Led Zeppelin? One Tune?

[Rick and Roll]

How in the name of prog did led Zeppelin get a song on the Moon?

And if it's only one song, why Black Mountain Side? A 2 minute song?

Is this a joke, mistake, etc?

If not, then maybe I'll list some real prog Zeppelin songs.

I look in and it's playing. Oh, I think, Zep One's added. So I look in the requests and that's it. One tune.

????????????????????????

[Michael]

Maybe some Achilles Last Stand, Carouselambra or maybe The Ocean(I liked it when Zebra did a remake of it thou)

[Yesspaz]

Well, I know we've had this thread before, but after searching for it, I realized it was so long ago it was before this newer version of the forums. Man, that was back in 2000. Since the topic has been dug up again, and knowing this'll go nowhere, here's my list for suggested select Zeppelin songs:

Achilles' Last Stand
Caroselambra
In the Light
In the Evening
The Rain Song
Kashmir
How Many More Times
Dazed and Confused
Four Sticks
The Battle of Evermore
No Quarter
Trampled Under Foot
Tea For One
All My Love
Bonzo's Montreaux

[progdirjim]

it may go somewhere. I've been considering adding some more Zeppelin. How about some feedback, knowing "Rock And Roll" and "Stairway To Heaven" ain't going to make it...

[Yesspaz]

if I see Communication Breakdown ever added to AM, I'll take my business elsewhere :D

[Michael]

Originally posted by progdirjim
it may go somewhere. I've been considering adding some more Zeppelin. How about some feedback, knowing "Rock And Roll" and "Stairway To Heaven" ain't going to make it...

I have to say I hate Stairway To Heaven and i don't know why.Maybe they played it to death :(

[Rick and Roll]

None of what anyone says has explained how that one song got on here. It's really weird. It's like the Grand Funk Railroad song.

Come on! How about one each from Chicago, Budgie, well you get the idea.

Let me put it this way. "Closer To Home" and "Achilles Last Stand" are two of my top twenty favorite songs, EVER. That being said, they're not prog just great rock songs.

On that list, All My Love, how Many More Times, prog??? Really? I can think of fifteen Black Sabbath songs as prog as No Quarter.

Can you tell I'm passionate about this????

Include everything then. Stop piecemealing it. I love old Grand Funk. I don't need anyone telling me it's prog. I saw King's X cover that tune and saw Ozone Quartet do an instrumental "Four Sticks". Doesn't make it prog. Saw Echolyn do Zep and Yes. So?

Start including rock if it's what you want to do. It wouldn't bother me. But this partial stuff is opening up a big can o' worms.

[KeithieW]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
if I see Communication Breakdown ever added to AM, I'll take my business elsewhere :D

Be careful what you say Spaz.........Jim has a wicked sense of humo(u)r

[Rick and Roll]

I'd rather listen to Communication Breakdown than In The Evening. What a boring tune!

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
None of what anyone says has explained how that one song got on here. It's really weird. It's like the Grand Funk Railroad song.

Come on! How about one each from Chicago, Budgie, well you get the idea.

Let me put it this way. "Closer To Home" and "Achilles Last Stand" are two of my top twenty favorite songs, EVER. That being said, they're not prog just great rock songs.

On that list, All My Love, how Many More Times, prog??? Really? I can think of fifteen Black Sabbath songs as prog as No Quarter.

Can you tell I'm passionate about this????

Include everything then. Stop piecemealing it. I love old Grand Funk. I don't need anyone telling me it's prog. I saw King's X cover that tune and saw Ozone Quartet do an instrumental "Four Sticks". Doesn't make it prog. Saw Echolyn do Zep and Yes. So?

Start including rock if it's what you want to do. It wouldn't bother me. But this partial stuff is opening up a big can o' worms.

Good points!!!!! What next The Bee-gees :D .I myself Love the beatles and think IMHO there one of the all time great bands.I could say some of there later stuff could be considered prog in a way.That said i would still not think they belong here on AM.I see your point.

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textp/ProgressiveRock.html

[Yesspaz]

Without getting into yet another "what is prog" discussion, I will state what I've stated before so that you'll know where I'm coming from.

I like the ideas of "Art rock" or "Smart Rock" better than prog rock. I think of prog as rock music that brings in jazz, classical, and world music ideas and expands rock's palate. Zep had a lot of blues influence, but they also brought in Eastern stuff to, with nice odd rhythms. This is why I consider "Four Sticks" and add, but not "Hot Dog." So, yes, I look at it as "song by song," and I'll always stand by that. "Where does it end" you ask? When the individual song is not "art rock" or "smart rock." Well, some REM stuff is "arty," does that make it on AM? No. They are arty at times (Daysleeper, Losing My Religion), these songs don't "push the envelope" the way some Zep songs did. I don't care who the band is - if KISS did even ONE song that was progressive, I'd want it here. I'm not equating KISS with prog, but that hypothetical song? Play it.

Yesspaz, Enriching the world, two cents at a time.

[Rick and Roll]

I don't profess to give the definition of prog. That's what you are doing when you say a certain song is prog (ie "Closer to Home").

It's going too far when we decide that certain Led Zeppelin tracks are not progressive.

Closer to Home came out in the late 60's. Don't sit there and tell me if it's prog or not. Leave that for the people who grew up with that song (I was a few years too late, sorry to say). I'd say "Black Licorice" has more prog elements.

BTW Kiss did God of Thunder and Larger Than Life, there's two.

Thank you Michael about the Beatles. Perfect example.

Can't we stop dispensing judgement on what is and what should never be:D prog and either include music by certain artists or not? Does LZ or Manfred Mann or Rush need to be on Aural Moon? Does Big Generator or Talk? Just include them -

but not individual tracks!!! Too subjective!

[progdirjim]

here's the ironic thing - I added Black Mountain Side after yesspaz and a few others had requested the addition of Led Zep awhile back. Why that song? I thought it wouldn't be controversial!

I'm in favor of adding individual songs when appropriate. It's a lower priority than adding entire albums that are worthy though, so by definition it will be erratic. I think having some individual songs enriches the AM experience more than it detracts from it - and I apologize in advance if you disagree...

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I don't profess to give the definition of prog. That's what you are doing when you say a certain song is prog (ie "Closer to Home").

It's going too far when we decide that certain Led Zeppelin tracks are not progressive.

Closer to Home came out in the late 60's. Don't sit there and tell me if it's prog or not. Leave that for the people who grew up with that song (I was a few years too late, sorry to say). I'd say "Black Licorice" has more prog elements.

There are other GFR songs that would fit better into the genre than anything off of Am. Band.


BTW Kiss did God of Thunder and Larger Than Life, there's two.
Kiss covered Rod Argent's and Russ Ballard's "God Gave Rock and Roll to You" and maybe other artists that are here on the moon but puhlez, Kiss is never going to be prog in my book!

Kiss is one of the bands, like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, that I regret ever having wasted money to see.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Michael
Maybe some Achilles Last Stand, Carouselambra or maybe The Ocean(I liked it when Zebra did a remake of it thou)

Nothing to comment other than I like your avatar Michael. ;) :D

[Rick and Roll]

I didn't want this to be a thread on the relative merits of Kiss, Priest, Sabbath, etc. I'll go toe to toe anytime on hard rock with you.

I wanted to point out the way this could grow into something too tangled to get out of.

Read all of my posts on this sometime and think about it.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I didn't want this to be a thread on the relative merits of Kiss, Priest, Sabbath, etc. I'll go toe to toe anytime on hard rock with you.

The aforementioned have merits? :rolleyes:



Read all of my posts on this sometime and think about it.

Personally, I kind of like Yesspaz's Art-rock/Smart-rock definitions.

In the end, I suppose, it's Jim's and Avian's call.

I think they've been more than fair and have added lots of music others have recommended. They've added the new Marillion I sent to the playlist even though I get a distinct impression they don't like the stuff as much as I and some others do. I don't care for newer Genesis (of course nobody could tell that! :cool: ) There are things played here I don't really care for (ie. I can listen but I'm not running out to purchase an entire catalog of the artist(s) in question.) This is still THE VERY BEST music I've heard in a long time (if ever) -- it's even better than the XMSR Music Lab which was my other avenue in my crusade against Commercial Rot radio.

There are also albums which have great music, mediocre music and music which inhales quite profusely. As a Marillion fan, there are songs I do not like. It's that way with other artists too. AFAIAC, as long as what they do is not to keep repeating the same "formula" and experiment with new/different sounds, that's, IMHO, a good thing. I think Jim and Avian are doing that with the station. I'd really hate if they'd derive some strict "formula" and say this fits a mould and/or that does not.

As long as Jim and Avian are open minded, I do not mind the occasional song that has raised this red flag. However, if the Villiage People show up on the playlist, I'm joining Yesspaz on his exodus. ;)

[Rick and Roll]

The percussion in Black Mountain Side makes it prog. It's all clear now.

I'd love to have a real-time discussion on this sometime.

This was never a matter of taste or personal preference - just practicality and sensibility. I like LZ as much as anyone. Let's not get into likes and dislikes anymore, start another thread if you want, I'll play.

Just not here.

[Yesspaz]

This is fun...

Ok, some comments:

1. About KISS, I actually don't know anything by them except "I Want to Rock and Roll All Night and Party Every Day" and "Lick It Up" and I think one more. If KISS had two songs that make it, I had no idea.

2. RNR, great "What Is and What Should Never Be" reference. Nicely done.

3. To defy RnR :eek: and open up that can of worms, waaaay back before these new forums when we had the old forums, I had a select Beatles list as well, since someone brought them up. I won't reiterate the whole thing here (that's a whole 'nother thread), but I think songs like "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Abbey Road Side Two" medley would cut it as "smart-rock."

[Michael]

Originally posted by VAXman


Nothing to comment other than I like your avatar Michael. ;) :D
Yea im a Freak!!!Been into Marillion since they came out even when fish left.I din't like Hogarth(H) at first but he has grown on me.Im still a big Fan of Marillion and Fish.Yea i got my Deluxe Campaign Edition and all the other things that came before.They had a fantastic idea of using the internet to support them.It was pretty cool to get them to come to America with the tour fund.Im hopeing they make it to Cleveland this year to :)

[Rick and Roll]

we went from the mighty Zep to post-Season's End Marillion.

I think I'm going to be ill.

[Yesspaz]

Going to be!?! You've been sick since we met.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
we went from the mighty Zep to post-Season's End Marillion.

I think I'm going to be ill.

LOL!!! Got to take the good with the bad :).

[podakayne]

not going to add anything either...michael that's a pimpin avatar!

...didn't know zep was there ...iMO whatever Jim&Avain decide is just fine with me and if i don't agree it's just my opinion and i'm stickin to it. (yes i know i wasn't gonna say anything...but hey it's my perogative):cool:

[Yesspaz]

Poda, I notice you have a Roxy Music avatar. Being a woman, I find it intersting you'd use an avatar by a band that has been critized for "sexist" cover art. Are you making a "reverse statement"?!!:D :cool: :rolleyes:

[Michael]

Originally posted by podakayne
not going to add anything either...michael that's a pimpin avatar!

Thanks!!!I have not checked here in a few days me and the wife were busy buying a new car.But im not going to go off topic :)

[Rick and Roll]

I've never heard that about them in a negative fashion.

[podakayne]

well Yesspaz, as i have lusted in my heart for brian, and miffed at why jeri would perfer mick jagger...i find nothing sexist about my choice...and no hidden statement there either.

my first choice was gigers ELP cover but i saw someone had it...i love water (note my aquarian sun sign), and the sea...and a deep, deep blue to purple my color preferred choice...a mythological creature such as a mermaid works for me.

no, i'm not a critic of Roxy for their covers...probably due to my age at the time of there prominence...and discovering just what being female could and couldn't do for me.

smoochies

[VAXman]

Originally posted by podakayne
well Yesspaz, as i have lusted in my heart for brian, and miffed at why jeri would perfer mick jagger...i find nothing sexist about my choice...and no hidden statement there either.


I take it that I am not the brian you are lusting ;)
however, it's Bryan (with a Y, the portentous spelling) Ferry.

[moses]

Perhaps she meant Eno.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by VAXman


I take it that I am not the brian you are lusting ;)
however, it's Bryan (with a Y, the portentous spelling) Ferry.

Did you mean pretentious? Portentious, could that mean snobby things to come?

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll


Did you mean pretentious? Portentious, could that mean snobby things to come?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=portentous

def #3.

[podakayne]

what can i say...'cept got over it long ago...still appreciate the music and they both have aged nicely...as have i.:cool:

i forgot he spelled it that way thanks for the correction.

[Yesspaz]

the sexist cover remark was yet again a failed attempt at dry British humor.:rolleyes:

[KeithieW]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
the sexist cover remark was yet again a failed attempt at dry British humor.:rolleyes:

Something we Brits are better at than our beloved American neighbours. :p USUALLY!!!!

[podakayne]

sorry Yspaz...it failed me that that was even a snide remark...thougth you were serious...i'll learn you yet.;)

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by podakayne
i'll learn you yet.;)

I've only just begun to fight.

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

I'm just kinda surprised that nobody has mentioned "The Battle of Evermore". In my humble opinion, that's probably the most progressive song they did. Or perhaps "Going to California" MIGHT fit, though I'm not sure about that. Dazed and Confused would have, had the top 40 stations not played it into a bloody pulp over the last umpty years...

Just my opinion. Remember what you paid for it.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Roger Lee
I'm just kinda surprised that nobody has mentioned "The Battle of Evermore". In my humble opinion, that's probably the most progressive song they did. Or perhaps "Going to California" MIGHT fit, though I'm not sure about that. Dazed and Confused would have, had the top 40 stations not played it into a bloody pulp over the last umpty years...

Just my opinion. Remember what you paid for it.

Zep's not a band that I can cull "progressive" rankings of their songs. They're hard rock. If you really must do it, No Quarter and Achilles' (what a tune!) would be close. My favorite tune by them is Since I've Been Loving You and that's blues.

I respectfully disagree about the equation of how often something's played to if it's progressive or not. Makes no difference, really. I tire of overplayed stuff, too, but does it really affect it's "progressivity"?

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

I respectfully disagree about the equation of how often something's played to if it's progressive or not. Makes no difference, really. I tire of overplayed stuff, too, but does it really affect it's "progressivity"?

Perhaps not, under most circumstances. However, in my grand view of the world, in this instance, it plays a very large role in it, and it has nothing to do with the song itself, but how it's presented by the radio stations that play it. Most 'Top 40!' stations out there cringe at the thought of playing a song that's over 3.5 minutes long (that tends to stretch what they percieve as the attention span of their listeners). Anyway, I believe that in this instance, the amount of overplay has in fact played a detrimental role to the progressivity of D&C. Just my opinion, natch. Nobody need agree with me.

And there was supposed to be a point to this screed. I just can't remember what it was. :D
:rolleyes:

Anyway, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and go from there.

Roger

[Rick and Roll]

:)

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Well, I know we've had this thread before, but after searching for it, I realized it was so long ago it was before this newer version of the forums. Man, that was back in 2000. Since the topic has been dug up again, and knowing this'll go nowhere, here's my list for suggested select Zeppelin songs:

Achilles' Last Stand
Caroselambra
In the Light
In the Evening
The Rain Song
Kashmir
How Many More Times
Dazed and Confused
Four Sticks
The Battle of Evermore
No Quarter
Trampled Under Foot
Tea For One
All My Love
Bonzo's Montreaux

Yo, RL, Battle of Evermore suggested on page one... :p

[Rick and Roll]

Trampled Underfoot
In The Evening (are you kidding me?)
How Many More Times
Tea For One (this is Since I've Been Loving You "Lite")
All My Love (Right)

All others, OK

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by Yesspaz


Yo, RL, Battle of Evermore suggested on page one... :p

OK, so I missed it. Blame it on lack of sleep, failing eye-sight, or whatever else. :rolleyes:

Mea culpa, etc. :P

[podakayne]

who is that with bootsie collins?

[Rick and Roll]

not!

It is Doug Pinnick from the great King's X. He is a lean, mean bass player and belts out a mean tune.

Saw the picture on the band website, and after much phenagaling (including removing a guy with a fried chicken bucket on his head, please don't ask) - success!

Yesspaz was all over that, being the King's X junkie also (replied in another post).

Thanks for noticing.

I think I'll change it every month or so.........

[KeithieW]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
Thanks for noticing.

I think I'll change it every month or so.........

Still waiting to see that picture of you Rick..........You remember the one!!!!:D

[Bob Lentil]

Originally posted by podakayne
who is that with bootsie collins?

I was going to say, "Who's that with Doug Pinnick?"

[Rick and Roll]

I marvel over our generational and geographical gaps - it sure is interesting!

[podakayne]

nice idea to change it rick...you keep changing...i'll keep reading...if i change i'll stick with the roxy covers.

[Rick and Roll]

Here I come baby, coming to getcha!!!!

[Yesspaz]

Two of the best black rock bassists in one pic. Excellent.


Poda, which of the Roxy cover girls is you?