Instruments in progressive rock

[Wojtek]

One of the most important reasons I am listening to progressive rock is that in this kind of music we can often hear very wide instruments kit. It's great to mix traditional rock "foursome" guitar/bass/perc/keys with other instruments, sometimes ethnic, sometimes less exotic but still intriguing.
I'd like to ask you about your favourite "non-rock" instruments present in prog. Flutes, saxes or maybe harpsichord and church organ, oboe or clarinet (these are of course examples)? Please justify your choice - is it because you love given instrumentalist's performance so much or because you're simply never fed up with sound of the instrument and feelings it evokes.
Finally, what are in your opinion unforgettable tracks/albums with unforgettable "non-rock" instruments' performances?
:)

[Rick and Roll]

especially in concert is where I see these "special" moments, but for me the violin is one. I saw this band saturday as an opener called "Skeleton Breath", where the violin player just went nuts.

My favorite lead is the end of UK's "Caesar's Palace Blues". Eddie Jobson just goes to town! And of course, 90% of what Jean-Luc ponty does is superb.

Jerry Goodman, etc. There's a lot to choose from.

The flute is a close second, with Thijs Van Leer and Ian Anderson leading the way.

Of course never discount the vibra-slap! :D

[moses]

I'm not sure of any bands that use Uilleann pipes other than Iona, but I do love their sound. They're not quite like bagpipes - they tend to not use the drones in Iona, that goes a long way to removing the Scottish bagpipeyness (good word, huh?).

Anyhow, I'm not sure why I like them so much. Maybe because they just sound so peaceful to me. Maybe because I'm half Irish and it's bred into me. Iona sounds great when they mix this type of instrument with synths and electric guitars. You wouldn't think it would work, but it does.

[cactus]

in my opinion, the band which uses the widest palette of (non-rock) instruments is Gentle Giant, I remember the day I saw the band's line-up for the first time I was very surprised because I was expecting to see a long list of all kind of instrumentists...

I like very much the "dramba", I dont know the name in English, but you can hear it on the track "Join Together With The Band" by The WHO. (you know maybe the movie "BLACK CAT, WHITE CAT" by Emir KUSTURICA, in which "dramba" plays a special role)

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by moses
I'm not sure of any bands that use Uilleann pipes other than Iona, but I do love their sound.

Kate Bush for sure, and maybe Oldfield.......and I thought I saw them elsewhere.....Metallica? No.......

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by moses
Uilleann pipes When I read the original post by Woj, that's exactly what came to mind. Iona also uses penny whistels with their flutes, piccolos, and sax. My favorite examples of the use of Uilleann pipes is in the song "Turning Tide/Flight of the Wild Goose" and "Here I Stand." Uillean pipes are slightly reminiscent of geese, so they use them here to do sound painting.

Here I stand looking out to sea
and I say a prayer that the Wild Goose will come to me

Then the Uillean pipes come in. "The Wild Goose" is the ancient Celtic symbol for the Holy Spirit, so the song depicts the Wild Goose falling on Joanne (actually on St. Brendan). If you see Iona in concert, or look at pics, you'll see the giant Wild Goose artwork behind the stage.


Of course, who can forget the harpsichord break in "Siberian Khatru," or it's featuring in "Madrigal"? I also like ethnic percussion and such, as Yes used on "The Ladder" in many tracks.

I can hear a song in my head that uses a didgeridoo, but I can't place it...

Not prog, but what about the theremin in "Good Vibrations"? I'm sure the theremin is used in prog sometimes, but can't think of any particulars. The ethereal Christian band Jabobstone uses theremin frequently, but they are definitely not prog - more like dream pop.

Of course, the use of sitar is great. King's X used it on "Out of the Silent Planet" and "Not Just for the Dead." Adrian Belew used it on Kevin Max's solo album.

Um, that's enough for now...



(Still waiting for someone to do a killer gutbucket solo :rolleyes: )

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
especially in concert is where I see these "special" moments, but for me the violin is one. RnR, check out Rovo. They have a full member violinist.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Yesspaz

Of course, who can forget the harpsichord break in "Siberian Khatru," or it's featuring in "Madrigal"? Not prog, but what about the theremin in "Good Vibrations"? I'm sure the theremin is used in prog sometimes, but can't think of any particulars.

Those two are great.....also the harpsichord at the beginning of "Birth" by Focus....a perfect start to one of my very favorite songs!

There's a theremin played by Ronnie Montrose on the second tune of his "Open Fire" CD. It's on the Moon.

May be one on the Acuity record too.

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Hoo boy, Wojtek, you hit upon one of the subjects and subsets of prog that has drawn me here from day one and kept me here ever since. I've loved "non standard" instrumentation since I first started listening to music, when I was knee high to a low knee. Frank Zappa's use of Marimba and the like started it all.

But amongst my current favorites:

Par Lindh Project - Mundus Incompertus

Their use of pipe organ makes the entire epic for me. It wouldn't be the same with the standard Moog, ya know?

Peter Gabriel - His use of many ethnic instruments makes his already poweful music that much more so.

Focus - Their use of Alto and Bass flute (which should actually be considered a 'tenor' flute, but that's not their fault) adds a haunting quality to many of their pieces

Dixie Dregs - OK, now is there ANYONE who's surprised that this hot fiddlin' group made it to my list? The Bash shows their virtuosity in ways that your average southern pickin' just wouldn't do. It brings out the inner redneck in me every time I hear it. But this isn't limited to just The Bash. Many of their tunes are enhanced by their violin work.

Genesis - See Peter Gabriel.

Steve Stevens - yeah, he doesn't use any non-standard instrumentation, but he takes what he DOES use and uses it to the hilt. His use of the accoustic guitar makes my heart sing.

I could go on. And on.

Roger -Dot- Lee, waiting for the first Prog Rock band that uses a Euphonium and makes it WORK!

[roger]

and don't forget Kansas and Rich Williams... :cool:

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by roger
and don't forget Kansas and Rich Williams... :cool:

Absolutely not. Like I said, I could go on and on....

Roger -Dot- Lee, when did Kansas ever record with a Euphonium? :D

[KeithieW]

The Oboe has such a beautiful tone best summed up in the slow movement of Brahms' Violin Concerto but as we're talking Prog here, FRUUPP incorporated the Oboe played by Stephen Houston on their first 3 albums. He left before the release of their fourth album "Modern Masquerades" being replaced by John Mason who played Vibes (another strange instrument). Try listening to some of the tracks from "Prince of Heavens Eyes" by them.

A full orchestra is something else that (in the right circumstances) works well with a Rock band. I've seen BJH, Camel, Renaissance, The Moody Blues, Yes and Deep Purple perform with an orchestra and each time I felt it worked. Getting the right balance between the orchestra and the band is obviously crucial here as well as being EXTREMELY difficult but in all of the above cases they did well. The best were The Moodies and Yes with Renaissance and Camel close behind.

If you want to see an example of this then check out the DVD "Yes Symphonic" recorded in Amsterdam during the Magnification tour. A truly wonderful rendition of "Ritual" will unfold before your eyes. Watching the members of the orchestra (especially the wodwind section) grooving along to the band when they were playing on their own is a sheer delight.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by roger
and don't forget Kansas and Rich Williams... :cool:

are we talking about the violin? That would be Robby Steinhardt.

if not, sorry.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Keith Waye
The Oboe has such a beautiful tone Many people forget that Roger Waters plays oboe on a few tracks on The Wall, most prominently on the last track, "Outside the Wall."

[moses]

Many people forget that Roger Waters plays oboe on a few tracks on The Wall, most prominently on the last track, "Outside the Wall."

I don't have it to check the liners and haven't heard it in years, but I always thought that sounded like a clarinet. I'm not disputing but that was my impression all these years.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by moses
I'm not sure of any bands that use Uilleann pipes other than Iona, but I do love their sound. They're not quite like bagpipes - they tend to not use the drones in Iona, that goes a long way to removing the Scottish bagpipeyness (good word, huh?).

Anyhow, I'm not sure why I like them so much. Maybe because they just sound so peaceful to me. Maybe because I'm half Irish and it's bred into me. Iona sounds great when they mix this type of instrument with synths and electric guitars. You wouldn't think it would work, but it does.

You should listen to more Marillion than follow the parochial opinions of some others here. Check out the title track from Marillion's Brave; it features the Uilleann pipes extensively.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Not prog, but what about the theremin in "Good Vibrations"? I'm sure the theremin is used in prog sometimes, but can't think of any particulars. The ethereal Christian band Jabobstone uses theremin frequently, but they are definitely not prog - more like dream pop.


Marillion did a song in honor of Mr. Brian Wilson on Afraid Of Sunlight called Cannibal Surf Babe which features a Theremin. Just an example off the top of my head.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by VAXman
You should listen to more Marillion than follow the parochial opinions of some others here. Check out the title track from Marillion's Brave; it features the Uilleann pipes extensively.

Do I have to? I need to clean the dust off first.:p

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by moses
I don't have it to check the liners and haven't heard it in years, but I always thought that sounded like a clarinet. I'm not disputing but that was my impression all these years. Hmm, might be a clarinet. I'm not an expert on my woodwinds.

[prythm]

I just got my hand on Rythmix from Universe Zero. The use of the harpsichord is very cool.

I believe synthesizers are inherently linked to prog music. From the Lucky Man Moog solo to the awesome Watcher In The Sky Mellotron strings (not officially a synthesizer), I have always been attracted to prog because of the cool synthesizer timbres. The Oberheim strings in Fools Overture... That one string-like note held over most of Crystal Ball… That single ascending synth lead at the end of Dukes Travels(“I call you for I must leave"), luv them synths.

(Can you tell I've led a sheltered life, such newbie references)

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Many people forget that Roger Waters plays oboe on a few tracks on The Wall, most prominently on the last track, "Outside the Wall."

Probably they forget because he didn't.

If you'd have seen The Wall you'd know that it is neither clarinet or oboe.
It is an old english triple reed concertina (an accordion). Oh, and it wasn't played by Waters.

[lotus]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
especially in concert is where I see these "special" moments, but for me the violin is one. I saw this band saturday as an opener called "Skeleton Breath", where the violin player just went nuts.



I agree with Rick, one of my fav's is also the Violin. Good example for that is Mauro Pagani, former PFM, playing in Alta Loma Nine Till Five.

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by VAXman
Probably they forget because he didn't.

If you'd have seen The Wall you'd know that it is neither clarinet or oboe.
It is an old english triple reed concertina (an accordion). Oh, and it wasn't played by Waters.

You're half right there, Vax.

There is a Concertina in there...but there's also a woodwind of some sort starting things off after the explosions (either a Clarinet or a Soprano Sax with a VERY soft reed).

Roger -Dot- Lee, knows his woodwinds. Maybe.

[Yesspaz]

There's a concertina, and an oboe/clarinet, and Waters most definitely plays it. On video footage of the Wall tour, you see Waters and the hired musicians finish the show literally outside the wall. They walk on from one side of the stage, Waters playing the melody on a reed with the concertina and guitar. He stops playing, sings the song (...after all it's not easy banging your head against some mad bugger's wall), then they all walk off the opposite side of the stage, Waters playing the reed. I saw it on VH1.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
There's a concertina, and an oboe/clarinet, and Waters most definitely plays it. On video footage of the Wall tour, you see Waters and the hired musicians finish the show literally outside the wall. They walk on from one side of the stage, Waters playing the melody on a reed with the concertina and guitar. He stops playing, sings the song (...after all it's not easy banging your head against some mad bugger's wall), then they all walk off the opposite side of the stage, Waters playing the reed. I saw it on VH1.

What video of The Wall tour?

[Rick and Roll]

This week...Pink Floyd!

Roger Waters, whose concertina was only visible to Spaz, is Obscured By Clouds to vax. Roger, who some say is an Atom Heart Mother, gives vax a Dark Side of the Moon by saying he's half right.

Aah but we may have multiple videos. Who can uncover the Saucerful of Secrets? Need I say More?

I Wish You Were Here to see the video. Then we'd all know.

Saw Tina at a concert once, she was playing a special woodwind. And we'll leave that one to the censors.

Come to think of it, we're all just a bunch of Animals.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
This week...Pink Floyd!

Roger Waters, whose concertina was only visible to Spaz, is Obscured By Clouds to vax. Roger, who some say is an Atom Heart Mother, gives vax a Dark Side of the Moon by saying he's half right.

Aah but we may have multiple videos. Who can uncover the Saucerful of Secrets? Need I say More?

I Wish You Were Here to see the video. Then we'd all know.

Saw Tina at a concert once, she was playing a special woodwind. And we'll leave that one to the censors.

Come to think of it, we're all just a bunch of Animals.

I found a link to the Roger Waters "The Wall" at http://www.rogerwaters.org/vrev4.html

This says Waters is seen leading the troupe on and off the stage with a "clarinet" (read, not an oboe). I don't recall the clarinet from the Nassau Coliseum performance of The Wall by the whole of Pink Floyd. I do know that there was the concertina (that's visible in my pix but I don't see a clarinet). My guess is that none were actually played live but used only as props in the last few moments outside the toppled wall.

At least I saw it live and not on VH1. :p ... and the DSotM at RFK, Animals and Wish You Were Here at the Philly Spectrum, and of course The Wall at Nassau Coliseum. The last PF tour for me was the Division Bell FRC at Giant Stadium.

[Yesspaz]

1. I amended to clarinet
2. The Wall concert overview (http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/wallperf.html)

Scroll down to the picture of the Wall falling and look left, you see this:

"By The Trial, it was Roger on stage alone contemplating his fate against the animated court. There the brutal judge dredged up the characters in Pink's life before him and demanded The Wall be torn down, exposing all of Pink's frailty and fears in full view. Images flashed on The Wall in rapid sequence as the first few bricks tumbled down onstage. The rumble grew louder until the entire edifice came crashing down in systematic chaos.

During Outside The Wall, the minstrels of doom armed with acoustic guitars, a mandolin, an accordian, and Waters puffing on a clarinet, marched through the rubble in the final act, proclaiming "it's not easy banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall".

[roger]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
are we talking about the violin? That would be Robby Steinhardt.

if not, sorry. d'oh! I can be such a doofus. thanks for the correction, Rick.

[lenron]

Chapman Stick. Nuff said.

Nino "Saving For A Stick" Batista

[kirk]

Focus - Their use of Alto and Bass flute (which should actually be considered a 'tenor' flute, but that's not their fault) adds a haunting quality to many of their pieces

roger- there is such a thing as a "real bass flute".

tim weisberg used a model that i think fills the
"tenor flute" bill although it's not labeled as that.
this thing was (an est.) 3 ft. longw/ a circumference of
around 3 in.

the bass flutes that i've seen have a curved section
which are actually contrabass flutes.
believe it or not, there's also a contrabass flute
pitched 2 octaves below the bass flute!
here's a link to all the types of flutes-
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/flutes.html

i'll be introducing my flute playing on future zenpool recordings
(my neo-classical piece "for one day of peace" was the 1st).

k

[black max]

A few extra mentions to spur further discussions:

Andy Mackay plays a beautiful oboe on a number of Roxy Music toons.

Patrick Moraz likes odd Brazilian percussion and features it extensively on his "I" album.

Lots of horns and woodwinds on a variety of Crimson albums, along with a kalimba. Maybe the kalimba was Jamie Muir's contribution; can't remember the track off the bat.

Personally, I love the "stick," and Trey Gunn's variant, the Warr guitar.

I'm leaving out a hell of a lot of stuff, particularly the cello -- one of my favorites.

[roger]

great link, Kirk! thanks! :cool:

[kirk]

anytime R! oh yeah...i found an octabass flute
that's supposed to be able to play a C 0 (zero) !


agreed on the chapman stick. there's used ones about
for a good price (i found 5 on ebay a few weeks ago starting
@ $800).
it's on my wishlist !

k

[Wojtek]

Ok, time to answer own questions :D :

It seems that among ethnic instruments the most popular are these connected with Celtic culture. And I like them very much: flutes, harp, violins... From the mentioned ones I like flute most but Ian Anderson like performance and flute sound is not my favourite. I prefer deep, "wet" and delicate sound of the instrument called panflute. It reminds of the traditional Mayan or Aztec instruments because of the characteristic sound of exhaled air. It sounds fantastic but is not very popular among rock flutists.

I love also mentioned by Moses pipes. Their master Troy Donockley is phenomenal musician. Try his recent solo album The Pursuit of Illusion.

Now about keyboards. Definitely Hammond Organ and mellotron are symbols of 70's music, especially progressive rock. The last mentioned instrument has some incredible "banks", being sincere I have to admit that there is some shit on mellotron too ;). But let's concentrate of the pleasant ones. So:
- choir - still popular in symphonic rock. They were used by Tony Banks, sounded fantastic in Genesis compositions. Do you remember incredible Los Endos fragment as the ending of Seconds Out album? What a moment, what a fantastic mellotron choir performance!
- violins - very often mixed up with strings. No, this ghastly, shrill sound, symbol of classic mellotron is not 'strings' but 'violins'. Mellotron has 'strings' bank but it's sth different.
- flutes - very nice, old-school sound. Very often used by for ex. Tomas Bodin.

To sum up, in my opinion adding varied palette of instruments to the album is a symptom of big musical imagination and idea for music.

PS. One question. I know that Spock's Beards uses bozouki, I know what it is. But where is it heard on their albums?

PS2. Great banjo on Tiles albums. :p

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by kirk
roger- there is such a thing as a "real bass flute".


Oh, I know this. When I was in college, I dated a flautist. She gave me the rundown on the different flute sizes and the like.

They exist, they're just mislabelled. :D

http://www.contrabass.com/pages/flutes.html


Ah yes, I've been there before. VERY nice site for the big horns.

Incidentally, it gladdens my heart tremendously to find that Jay Easton has finally secured himself that BBb Octocontramonster he was talking about a year ago last christmas. The Epplesheim Tubax, as I recall. I got a chance to listen to him play his Eb Contrabass sax at the same time. Talk about an experience. I could feel it rattling my sinuses. Wonderful sound it had.

It was taller than he was, as I recall.


i'll be introducing my flute playing on future zenpool recordings
(my neo-classical piece "for one day of peace" was the 1st).

k

Cool deal! I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

Roger -Dot- Lee, I want one of them Tubax.....

[kirk]

wojtek- have you heard hubert law's "inside the great pyramid"?
from your description, i bet you'd love it.
i don't know how he got permission, but it's actually recorded
where the name implies.

most don't realize this, but ian (being self taught) holds his
R hand in the wrong position (keys the instrument incorrectly).
"bouree" is much easier to figure out after moving the R
hand up 1 key, but makes a trill w/ the little finger almost impossible.
i love hearing him play, he brings an enormous amount of energy to the instrument.

k/z

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by kirk
wojtek- have you heard hubert law's "inside the great pyramid"?
from your description, i bet you'd love it.
i don't know how he got permission, but it's actually recorded
where the name implies.

most don't realize this, but ian (being self taught) holds his
R hand in the wrong position (keys the instrument incorrectly).
"bouree" is much easier to figure out after moving the R
hand up 1 key, but makes a trill w/ the little finger almost impossible.
i love hearing him play, he brings an enormous amount of energy to the instrument.

k/z

You wouldn't happen to be Roland Kirk, would you? :D

[KeithieW]

Don't forget the Klaghorn (Jeffrey made it) on Dharma for one.

[Yesspaz]

There's one track on AM called "Ballade" by Matthias Ziegler. Every sound is made by different types of flutes.

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

There was a tune that played earlier today. Gryphon, I believe it was. I could have SWORN they were using a Bassoon and perhaps an English Horn (which is actually french in origin) and/or an Oboe. Very, VERY well done.

Roger -Dot- Lee, yah, I've got a classical bent.

[kirk]

roger- a bassoon it was. i had the pleasure of seeing gryphon
open for yes on one leg of the relayer tour, in support of
"red queen to gryphon three" .

there's samples on the gryphon site-
http://www.gaudela.net/gryphon

p e a c e kirk

[Rick and Roll]

There's a glass harmonica in Robyn Hitchcock's "Airscape" (played on my show)...very keyboardy sounding....

[black max]

Steve Howe fans (of which I am one, but an apparently ignorant one) -- what exactly is a vachalia?

Of all the old-school synths out there, I prefer the sound of an ARP 2800 (if memory serves). And the earlier poster is right, Tony Banks used the mellotron choir as well as anyone.

Nice flautist for the old band Jade Warrior.

Beautiful violin on several Roxy Music tracks when Eddie Jobson was with the band. And of all bands, Hawkwind had a very proficient violinist/keyboardist for a number of albums in Simon House. HW isn't exactly known for their musical proficiency, but House is very, very good.

Ian Anderson likes the penny whistle, too.

The Psychedelic Furs are hardly a progressive band, but I saw them on tour with a cellist, and it was very effective. The lady made herself part of almost every song, and played with a lot of energy.

[kirk]

vachalia- an avocado-shaped, medieval-looking instrument whose tone is sort of a cross between a mandolin and a conventional 12-string acoustic guitar.

steve used it on wondrous stories.

k

[lenron]

Lest we not forget sitars. Used widely along with tablas in many many great records, prog and otherwise, in the western world. I for one love the sitar's sound, and had the joy of experiencing Ravi Shankar live in 1997 at the Wortham Center in Houston. Fantastic. He even took the time to distribute eastern music pamplets (explaining the instruments, scales, and methods of the music) and also educate the audience on the music's theories thru, frankly, lectures about the music. It was 2 hour-long sets of music, performance, and education. Brilliant.

[Yesspaz]

There was this one guy who one time used these long bells that are tubular in shape. Man, that was cool.

[moses]

There was this one guy who one time used these long bells that are tubular in shape.

One time? Hasn't he done that like 17 or 18 times now?

Moses
(Can't keep up with the bells)

[progdirjim]

drums man. all of them.

:D