Is it time for Aural Moon to expand??

[Cozy]

I'm sorry if this is not the appropriate place to bring this up, but I wonder if it isn't time for Aural Moon to expand its listener base by adding another 50-100 connections to the server (and preferably at 80k or better).

I've been talking with a few people about Aural Moon recently, and one of the comment that has come up of late is that they don't try to log on much because when they do so, the server is full so they go somewhere else.

It seems to me that during the weekdays (American time), the server is at or near capacity for several hours. Anyway, I was wondering what the regulars here thought about it. It seems like a lot of the progressive stations get nothing for listeners, yet AM and Delicious Agony manage to get over 100.

Now there are new stations cropping up like AOL's progressive stations. While I'm happy AOL even considered a progressive rock station, there's something a little stomach turning about a big name getting involved. My worry is that they will capture eventually a large portion of the listening share, but they won't deal in progressive rock much beyond fairly typical acts.

Anyway, just a thought up for discussion.


- Cozy

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Part of the problem with this is that we currently have to pay for the stream by connection. Adding connections will simply increase the cost for the stream. It's like that on every site I've seen that even considers hosting streaming audio. I'm investigating alternatives, but of those I've seen, they're either too expensive or too limiting for our usage.

We're still looking, though.

Roger -Dot- Lee, BOY am I looking.

[Rick and Roll]

It is an interesting dilemma. From a listener standpoint, there's probably a market out there right now for 3-4 times what we have. But the main thing is no one has a monetary interest or anything to gain other than the love of the music.

It is very to difficult to maintain a solid base while having basically no funding. It's a testament to Jim, Roger, and Vax that they keep it going without much (or any) $ support.

Sometime in the next year, if all goes according to plan, I should be involved in a company that will have computer support and possibly the resources available for an expansion. I just hope the company grows enough to be ready when and if Aural Moon is ready.

That's the frustrating thing....the demand is there, and the musicians I cross paths with support us.

So, to me, it's not inappropriate, it's a great question, and I just hope to be part of it when the Moon flourishes as it could.

[progdirjim]

If any one can help me come up with a business model that would turn Aural Moon into a break even proposition, we would love to expand. As it is, I spend well over a thousand dollars a year to keep Aural Moon running, and that's net of the money received from the 128K patrons. It would be 2.5X that much without the patrons. I absolutely intend to maintain Avian's vision of NOT having commercials on the stream.

[Cozy]

Okay, well that helps to at least get an idea. You guys would like/have intention to expand, but finances are the chief concern.

I have a few suggestions that are fairly obvious ones.


1) Besides the patron program, start a smaller general donation drive. It might bring in only $50/month, but anything would help.

2) Find sponsers/investors. You could do something along the lines of CD Universe/Amazon. On the "buy now" links, you could link it up with some popular vendors like Lasers Edge, Syn-Phonic or Wayside. It's heavy in logistics, but it might help.

3) Another sponser benefit instead of commercial space "per se", might be to do some programming that highlights artists on a particular label. For example, you got all those Mellow albums. You could do a Mellow hour once or twice /week that highlights songs from those artists. Instead of DJ programming, you could have little 30 sec blurps during the broadcast reinforcing what you are highlighting.


4) Win the lottery and buy AOL. :D



- Cozy

[VAXman]

Originally posted by progdirjim
If any one can help me come up with a business model that would turn Aural Moon into a break even proposition, we would love to expand. As it is, I spend well over a thousand dollars a year to keep Aural Moon running, and that's net of the money received from the 128K patrons. It would be 2.5X that much without the patrons. I absolutely intend to maintain Avian's vision of NOT having commercials on the stream.

Well, as you know (Jim, Roger and a few other listeners do) I have a server here that is earmarked to take on the AM Web Site and the bandwidth to support it. It's quite alot of server -- in fact, it's probably overkill -- and I doubt AM will outgrow this. Moving the AM web site to this server is going to take the time -- nothing more as I'm footing the bill for server and bandwidth -- but that time is almost as hard to come by as funds for AM. Roger Lee giving up his unemployed status (I'm happy for him too) has eroded his free time. Anyway, once that move is effected, that will free up some funds which I would hope Jim will devote to more streams, etc. for the station.

I'd love to host the AM station too. The issue there is not the hardware but the bandwidth. I pay significant fees for T1 (DS1 ATM) and there's simply no way I can afford DS3 ATM. Believe me, if I could there'd be no lack of streams. A DS3 could easily support 1000+ 56K streams.

We need to get some more of the listeners to pony up some money. The $50 fee is NOTHING... That's less than 15¢ a day.

Commercials? Please, never! I'm not even that fond of the station IDs.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Cozy
Okay, well that helps to at least get an idea. You guys would like/have intention to expand, but finances are the chief concern.

I have a few suggestions that are fairly obvious ones.


1) Besides the patron program, start a smaller general donation drive. It might bring in only $50/month, but anything would help.

2) Find sponsers/investors. You could do something along the lines of CD Universe/Amazon. On the "buy now" links, you could link it up with some popular vendors like Lasers Edge, Syn-Phonic or Wayside. It's heavy in logistics, but it might help.

3) Another sponser benefit instead of commercial space "per se", might be to do some programming that highlights artists on a particular label. For example, you got all those Mellow albums. You could do a Mellow hour once or twice /week that highlights songs from those artists. Instead of DJ programming, you could have little 30 sec blurps during the broadcast reinforcing what you are highlighting.


4) Win the lottery and buy AOL. :D



- Cozy

1) Is generally supported by us hard core people, but not necessarily by the masses. It's worth a try, if needed.

2) and 3) are part of the business model that's being developed by the company I've been mentioning. But as it is presented this blurs the line into advertising. Until the model is developed (we do have an idea Jim but it's unfortunately quite a few months away) this may be all we can do. Jim's contributions earn him the right to keep the vision intact.

4) I hate the lottery more than vax hates Microsoft.

This should be reevaluated and discussed often...I'd like to see Aural moon grow.

[Cozy]

Good points by all.


Regarding #2and/or#3, I can do a little more research on this if needed. I'm sure I can rally up some interest. Unless you have a lot of money or situations in your favor that allow you to skirt price (having your own hosting space, etc), with growth may indeed come some sort of volley into advertisment. I agree as well, that I find full-on advertisment not a good idea, but this at least gives those that would sponser something for their efforts.

I wonder how much the costs would change if someone else did the hosting....

Also, I think it's very important to at least get an idea of how much AM could expand. I would think unless you went more commercial and were picked up by a carrier that anything over 500 listeners would be a pipe dream. But I certainly think there's market for 300+. I agree let's discuss it more.

- Cozy

[mossy]

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to have a yearly pledge drive targetting the listeners?

We talked about this alot when Avian, Jim and Roger were considering changing "white" to some other format. Sorry...I don't have the techie lingo, but some of you will remember.

Various levels of pledging, including the level that gets you the 128k stream, and a one time a year pledge so that nobody has to keep track of monthly listener pledge amounts.

I have no idea how much money we're talking to expand the station...but if Jim thinks that the active listener base could support it, I'm willing to put my money where my ears are.

[VAXman]

OK. Here's the new model... (Tongue in cheek)

Rule #1: Everyone that wants to request must have a paypal-like account.

Rule #2: Every request debits the requester's account by 1¢/minute of airplay. (rounded up to the next minute... hell, if the cell phone companies can get away with it, why not AuralMoon)

Rule #3: Everytime you request the same song, the price for you doubles.

This would certailly put money in the stations pockets and limit the replay of certain "epics" over and over and over again. You know who you are!


Let's see how this would work...

Supper's Ready would net the station 23¢ every time it's requested. Assuming a certain requester really likes Supper's Ready, it would cost 46¢ the next time it's requested and then 92¢.... $1.84... $3.68... $7.36... $14.72... pretty soom, they'll have spent enough to have purchased a copy of the song -- HELL, THE WHOLE CD -- and may actually consider it instead of over-requesting it. See, everybody wins!

Assuming all 24 hrs of a day was requests, this would net the station about $400.00 a month; $5000 a year. More, of course, if we have habitual requesters (and we do) and habitual "epic" requesters (and we most certainly do)!

Substitute Supper's Ready for Blue Shift, Sebastian Hardie, KC, Yes, GY!BE, The Flower Kings, etc. etc...

The monies are staggering. :D

For our UK friends, substitute p for ¢. :p (Exchange rates are awful!)

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by VAXman
OK. Here's the new model... (Tongue in cheek)

[snip: nice plan for monetary generation]

For our UK friends, substitute p for ¢. :p (Exchange rates are awful!)

Poodle piddle. It's not OUR fault that they don't use the good olde greenback. One for one, I say!

(said tongue in cheek, since I've only seen one overrequester that WASN'T a US based carbon unit. So it really wouldn't be a problem, I suppose)

[lotus]

Originally posted by VAXman
OK. Here's the new model... (Tongue in cheek)

Rule #1: Everyone that wants to request must have a paypal-like account.

Rule #2: Every request debits the requester's account by 1¢/minute of airplay. (rounded up to the next minute... hell, if the cell phone companies can get away with it, why not AuralMoon)

Rule #3: Everytime you request the same song, the price for you doubles.

This would certailly put money in the stations pockets and limit the replay of certain "epics" over and over and over again. You know who you are!


Let's see how this would work...


For our UK friends, substitute p for ¢. :p (Exchange rates are awful!)

Basically I likethis idea:D , there would be some ppl spending after half a year 50 bucks to listen their GYBE!, good price for our suffering....:D

But, seriously speaking, I do not think that this reflects the spirit of this station.:rolleyes:

Comming back to the original thread it would be great to have a possibility to increase the number of listeners in order to be able to share prog and this magnific place with more people in the world. But of course I see also the economic problem in this, bearing in mind that this should be a non commercial site (and I am more than 100% in favour of that).

But arising some funds means also to be a little organized in the only organized funds arising area, which is the 128 k stream. I am on that stream now since March 2004, but no mail came, that I have to renew this privilege, and I guess, no other moonie got something like that. Or have I been forgotten with the change of ownership? (US $ 50 on the way to you Jim in a couple of min for the next year...:) )

But maybe we should think also about another idea. Some of us are able and willing to donate some more. But for this I e.g. would like to have a proposal from management with the goal and the costs involved (like the new chat, which never was realized due to technical reasons, but had some funds collected) in order to make this goal also our private and personal goal.

I repeat myself: I hope, that AM remains an abolute non commercial station, only supported by the listeners.

[Rick and Roll]

In order to do it right, we may need more than what can be collected from us.

By the way vax, we should include Dark Matter also;)

[progdirjim]

Originally posted by lotus

But arising some funds means also to be a little organized in the only organized funds arising area, which is the 128 k stream. I am on that stream now since March 2004, but no mail came, that I have to renew this privilege, and I guess, no other moonie got something like that. Or have I been forgotten with the change of ownership? (US $ 50 on the way to you Jim in a couple of min for the next year...:) )


Thank you Lotus, I've received it. What happened is, last August I took over financial responsibility from Avian. As soon as I did, I began tracking patron donations. Now that it's been a year, I know who has and hasn't paid - and at some point in the future we may change the address of the 128K stream to force people to repay. But I had no visibility into patron donations prior to that.

[progdirjim]

Originally posted by VAXman
OK. Here's the new model... (Tongue in cheek)

Rule #1: Everyone that wants to request must have a paypal-like account.

Rule #2: Every request debits the requester's account by 1¢/minute of airplay. (rounded up to the next minute... hell, if the cell phone companies can get away with it, why not AuralMoon)

Rule #3: Everytime you request the same song, the price for you doubles.

This would certailly put money in the stations pockets and limit the replay of certain "epics" over and over and over again. You know who you are!


Let's see how this would work...

Supper's Ready would net the station 23¢ every time it's requested. Assuming a certain requester really likes Supper's Ready, it would cost 46¢ the next time it's requested and then 92¢.... $1.84... $3.68... $7.36... $14.72... pretty soom, they'll have spent enough to have purchased a copy of the song -- HELL, THE WHOLE CD -- and may actually consider it instead of over-requesting it. See, everybody wins!

Assuming all 24 hrs of a day was requests, this would net the station about $400.00 a month; $5000 a year. More, of course, if we have habitual requesters (and we do) and habitual "epic" requesters (and we most certainly do)!

Substitute Supper's Ready for Blue Shift, Sebastian Hardie, KC, Yes, GY!BE, The Flower Kings, etc. etc...

The monies are staggering. :D

For our UK friends, substitute p for ¢. :p (Exchange rates are awful!)

Your tongue may be in cheek, but if you and/or dot can program it, I would seriously consider implementing it. Especially if we can do a "one free request per week"or something like that...

[RogorMortis]

[Rule #1: Everyone that wants to request must have a paypal-like account.
Rule #2: Every request debits the requester's account by 1¢/minute of airplay. (rounded up to the next minute... hell, if the cell phone companies can get away with it, why not AuralMoon)
Rule #3: Everytime you request the same song, the price for you doubles.


So you want to take money for requests - Good idea except I'm afraid the silent majority will then say "Fine - then why do I have to wait for at least 1 hour if not more to hear it being played? If I'm to pay then the station must at least give an accurate time when it plays"
Some will get pis***** off and say OK with me I'll go somewhere else, which could be an advantage.

This is not a criticism but just a thought. I don't request that much as I often miss it being played. (Although I like the doubbling idea !)

Haven't we better discuss another model and that is paying for being registered, which is necessary for requesting and listening to the 56 k.- Don't forget administering the request system as Vax describes will be a painfull time comsuming thing. It would be better to keep payments in larger chunks. I have before mentioned the fact that it shouldn't be absolutley free to be a member and clog the database.

I love no advertising but Cozy does have a couple of points worth looking into. I know from my sports world that being a minority makes it extremely hard to find sponsership money unless the owner himself is a complete prog nut.

I take my hat for Jim but when I first saw Cozy's note I was thinking perhaps in terms of a second server in Europe which could be a cheaper option. But I've dropped the idea as it would mean 2 different streams although it would save us a lot shipping costs donating any music.

[kirk]

o.k. guys...i've been self employed for..daaamn!..
i just realized..over half my life this year!haha

jim, i almost mentioned this when you were having
to wrestle w/ taxes.

you DO know, that whover holds the biz license for AM
(please tell me you have one...) can deduct expenses as
"biz startup" down to the pencils and gas to the office max...

i have a biz license as "zenpool". for that $20, i deducted
all my keys, computer and software this year, and received
a $7000 refund.
next year, the same stuff amortizes 10%, so $6700.
plus next year, i get to deduct the cost of replicating my cd,
my new mixer, roland fantom, and even the sq.ft of the
spare bedroom the equipment occupies as office space.
anything that pertains to the music biz.

the govt. says i "have to be showing an attempt to profit".
w/ 5 years grace to do so.
cdbaby, towerrecordsonline, weedshare does that.
"the shingle's out".
it's a simple matter to obtain a new license under a different
name at the end of the 5 years.

so, do that and the station's free after your being
reimbursed by the gub-ment. the more server space, the larger the refund.
oh yeah... DON"T DO YOUR OWN TAXES!
a good accountant makes and saves you $$,
much more than they cost.
besides, they have to go to court w/ you if you're ever audited.

ok...something to sell.....

k

[Rick and Roll]

Although I am an accountant, I'm not privy to any of the financial workings of Aural Moon. Kirk's scenario is essentially correct, but it's not that easy, and it's not a one for one deal.

I'm under the assumption Jim has these things worked out. If not, I'm happy to help. I'm good, and for the Moon, I'm free.

[kirk]

and it's not a one for one deal-

no, it is! things like home improvements aren't ,
but if it's approached as a small business, all startup
expenses are deductible.
i deducted every dime back 5 years on my equipment,
amortized to the current going price.

jim just has to show he's attempting to make money.

k

[Rick and Roll]

all I meant was, each dollar deducted does not net you back a dollar in tax. I'm aware of all of the business deductions.

(at least we're not talking about King's X :p )

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by kirk
jim just has to show he's attempting to make money.

k

And I think that's the rub here. Now I'm not an accountant, nor do I play one on TV, but Aural Moon isn't exactly under a money winning business model. It's a labor of love or we'd ALL be paying $10/month or more for the priviledge of the 56k stream, with an additional bonus of $25/month for the 128s.

And I'd likely be charging $25/30 per for my services. But I don't. And I wouldn't. I do it because of the love of the music (and the fact that I've got a few screws loose, but that's beside the point).

These figures are from the Thin Aire school of accounting, but in my estimation, that's about what it would run to make it profitable.

Roger -Dot- Lee, who really should get the latest updates into the library, but hasn't been able to maintain network uptime sufficient to even log into the station, let alone do something as time intensive as library updates.

[Rick and Roll]

There are many ways to look at it. Regardless of whether anyone "makes money" or "loses money" can be determined in a number of ways. (I have a reality show as an accountant. :rolleyes:)

I'm a firm believer in covering the fixed costs. In order to obtain and maintain the needed items to increase the listenership, a significant upgrade is needed in both time and funding. It does no good to make upgrades without the time commitment.

I have no clue as to the investment needed to run the station if there's an upgrade. Technical wizardry is not in my blood. But I can budget a wart off of an ass of a rhino.

In other words, if I'm supplied all of the numbers and time figures at some point regarding an upgrade, I can certainly tell you what it would take to break even.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Roger Lee
And I think that's the rub here. Now I'm not an accountant, nor do I play one on TV, but Aural Moon isn't exactly under a money winning business model. It's a labor of love or we'd ALL be paying $10/month or more for the priviledge of the 56k stream, with an additional bonus of $25/month for the 128s.

About the price for the satellite radio services. Just to put this in perspective, I'd wager that the lion's share of the listeners here pay for TV.

Originally posted by Roger Lee
And I'd likely be charging $25/30 per for my services. But I don't. And I wouldn't. I do it because of the love of the music (and the fact that I've got a few screws loose, but that's beside the point).
Wow, you're cheap!

[kirk]

Originally posted by Roger Lee
And I think that's the rub here. Now I'm not an accountant, nor do I play one on TV, but Aural Moon isn't exactly under a money winning business model.

well, yeah...there's the problem. you need more server space.
the only way to get it, is either finding deeper, or dipping
into listener's pockets.

IMO, that won't work. the few loyalists you have
here in the forum obviously don't make up the 125 or so
(according to shoutcast) peak hr. listeners.
that faceless majority will likely switch stations,
especially w/ one PRRN station's free 80k stream,
and another @128k.
it's a tough sell when the competition's giving it away.

APPEARING TO ATTEMPT to make money is a far cry from
actually making money.
if i started showing a profit, i'd buy some TV time or something
so i didn't...understand? if i show a profit, i have to pay taxes...
not the goal.
the other way, i'm building my "brand", promoting my project
for free.
i would then write off the ads next year as part of a business loss.
also, i don't pay sales tax on my equipment or related items
(like my computer).
it's used to make a product for resale (cds).
the tax is collected at the time of sale.
guitar center has my # on file, all purchases are to zenpool,
not me personally.


for AM, the easiest thing to sell is space.
sell banner ads to bands, cd sellers, prog record companies.
not jim or roger, AM the entity.
it doesn't matter how many you sell.
if they sell, it supports the station.
if they don't, jim can write the difference off to the
actual cost of running the station as a business loss.
it's the attempt that matters.
back it all up w/ receipts, the government's cool w/ it.

scaping up $2200 worth of write offs should be no problem.
it just has to be treated as a small business, rather than an
ever-increasing costly hobby that actually has an incentive
not to grow. it's likely you could increase listeners X3
as suggested, but under this scenario, why would you want to
do that?


k

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by kirk
scaping up $2200 worth of write offs should be no problem.

k

which will net a portion back in real dollars. This is not a tax credit. You'll get back only whatever rate your tax bracket is in.

You can always write off business losses against income, but over time you can never get back enough to offset the total dollars spent. Not even close. As you have stated, there are non-cash adjustments such as depreciation and mileage, but it is not significant here.

A common misconception is tax refunds vs. actual profit and loss. They are not the same thing.

I do agree with your point, Kirk, about expanding the station is not happening if it's just a hobby. Very true - the incentive is not there.

[kirk]

i'll PM you...this server space costs money!:D

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
well, yeah...there's the problem. you need more server space.
the only way to get it, is either finding deeper, or dipping
into listener's pockets.

I just want to point out that it's not server space needed, it's bandwidth.

The hardware is cheap -- almost disposable -- and, for all intents and purposes, a one time cost. The internet bandwidth to support more listeners is what costs money and it's a recurring cost.

[progdirjim]

Hold up, Kirk and Rick. I'm going to e-mail Rick, and we'll start the detailed discussion. I'm looking for a good accountant anyway, as my tax situation is fairly complex. (If I ask you for advice not related to Aural Moon, you can charge me at your normal rate.)

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by VAXman
Wow, you're cheap!

The Moon is non profit. Now I can't command the triple digit per hour rate that you get, but for what I do, I command market rates. Or maybe a little more...

At least that's what I've been told...

[kirk]

thanks vax-
not my field of expertise.
i'm a computer audio expert, but can't even spell HTML!;)

all i know is, whatever it is, you need more of it,
and it's going to be more expensive to get it..no?:D

what's needed is a way to defray costs so the
station can grow.

that either has to come from the pockets of the admin here,
or a way has to be found to bring it in from outside.
there has to be a business model in place, so that
growth isn't just a bigger financial burden.


k

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by RogorMortis
I take my hat for Jim but when I first saw Cozy's note I was thinking perhaps in terms of a second server in Europe which could be a cheaper option. But I've dropped the idea as it would mean 2 different streams although it would save us a lot shipping costs donating any music.

How would it do that? We'd still need the original CD to be legal. Having the remote server wouldn't change that. Simply having an off-shore server wouldn't free us from our copyright obligations, I don't believe.

Am I missing something?

Roger -Dot- Lee, not a lawyer, and grateful for that.

[Rick and Roll]

You're correct dot...although I'm not sure if that's what Rogor was saying...although I'm never really sure what he's saying:D

Thanks for stepping in Jim...I was getting a bit uncomfortable talking about Moon finances (and guessing no less!).

Kirk and I have taken our discussion offline..and it's a good one at that.

Look forward to the email.....

[Yesspaz]

Hey everyone. I've been away for a week and just got back. I've scanned this thread loosely and just wanted to throw a few comments out.

I like VAX's idea of $0.01 per minute on requests. I'd cut down on requests as a whole (for good or for ill), but would bring in a little money. However, the idea of doubling the price when something is requested again I think is not good. It's less a deterrent and instead seems punitive. The fact that RQs cost anything would be enough. Let them RQ Supper's Ready ten times - that's $2.30, baby.

Another way to raise money for the station is to do little "fund-raisers" like selling old cds through the site give half to AM, etc. Lots of possibilities there.

But that payola idea of VAX's is killer. Take off the doubling repeated requests thing and I say go with it.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Hey everyone. I've been away for a week and just got back. I've scanned this thread loosely and just wanted to throw a few comments out.

I like VAX's idea of $0.01 per minute on requests. I'd cut down on requests as a whole (for good or for ill), but would bring in a little money. However, the idea of doubling the price when something is requested again I think is not good. It's less a deterrent and instead seems punitive. The fact that RQs cost anything would be enough. Let them RQ Supper's Ready ten times - that's $2.30, baby.

Another way to raise money for the station is to do little "fund-raisers" like selling old cds through the site give half to AM, etc. Lots of possibilities there.

But that payola idea of VAX's is killer. Take off the doubling repeated requests thing and I say go with it.
I'm surprised so many think my idea would/could work. Especially since it was clearly written to be facetious and cheeky.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by VAXman
I'm surprised so many think my idea would/could work. Especially since it was clearly written to be facetious and cheeky.

I don't. So that proves the point it must be a good idea.:p

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by VAXman
I'm surprised so many think my idea would/could work. Especially since it was clearly written to be facetious and cheeky.

Personally I liked it in a 'what if' sorta way. My first thought when I saw it was "I'd never have the time to code it." My second was "I don't NEED to, since Vax can." :D

[sharcnorris]

From a listeners viewpoint:
I request seldom, what "pay-pal" type entity could bother with pitling accounts of 10 cents or so for a month of requests to bill me for it.
When I click on a Sound stream, I get it, I don't understand the Moons listeners limit when I've never been limited.
I have no problem with Ad banners on the site, there is an abundonce of empty module space at the bottom of the Homepage and frankly I seldom slide down there anyway,
Just no Audio advertisment!!! Print ads are a part of America from stadiums to urinal billboards,Big deal, I don't think artistic Banners of Proggy products lessens the site or its vision.
If you what more listeners Who therefor will love your product so much they wiil want to subscribe and send you money) these are my thoughts:
Bill requests if you must but show when they will appear, I don't request because I'm usually not around by the time it comes up an hour later. I have always wished that the COMING UP NEXT list was longer, this list keeps me here sometimes when I was going elsewhere.
Now this one will be hard for Dr. D and Jim to swallow as it goes directly against their intent
Play better music and get more listeners
As the Moon has strived to have the most complete libraries of Prog artists on the planet, it fails to recognize why some bands sell millions of CD's and some only thousands and most of us Prog. Historians never heard of. There are times I turn away from the stream because although nice, many of the lesserknowns just are not as talented. No, I don't want to see just the dino's, just abetter balance with the giants weighted for more airplay than the smaller bands. As an owner of thousands of recordings and a record dealer in the 80's, I am suprised when 6 bands are listed and none well known. Not a selling point for more listening.
Finally, For more money you need more listeners, Years ago 32 was a common number in the currant listeners listing, you have grown but you need more to increase revenues, as with TV and Commercial radio, Listeners= revenue, good programing=Listeners, average programming = nobody home.........We all lose

[sharcnorris]

I consider the 128k stream a thank you for my donation, not a service for a fee. If that was the case I would complain about it being down(aka buffering) so much. Is this the concequense of limited bandwidth? If so Then I'm starting to see the Moons growth problems. If you pay for a service you expect to get it

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
Is this the concequense of limited bandwidth?

For the most part, no. The bulk of the rebuffer problems comes about because of limitations in the system that the station runs on. Specifically CPU related. We're investigating alternatives, but as far as I've been able to see, there's nothing economically and technically feasable...at least nothing that won't run in the thousands of dollars.

I'm still looking, though.

Roger -Dot- Lee

[kirk]

sharc- if the station's rebuffering constantly, it's probably
your server. i think once, a year ago or so the stream
bounced to 24k, but other than that i've never had a problem
w/ rebuffering or accessing.
many users don't know this, but all dsl/broadband isn't created equal.
if a server has more than 300 users per hub, which i believe
has something like a 3 mile limitation,
all the old problems w/ dialup, like not being able to access occur.
------------------------------------

guys- i'd really float this past BMI and ASCAP,SESAC.
you can't just rent or lease music, (which is in essense,what you'd be doing,
collecting revenue for playing an artist's music.)
i'm fairly certain that they'd see it as you needing
to pay the requested artists royalties.

on the other hand, 10 revolving banners @$25 for 30 days
pays for the current server space.
i'd call it the "introductory rate" in case demand is high.
as a selling point, i suggest you don't place banners
at the bottom where no one ever looks.:rolleyes:

i haven't heard back from PDJ on this, but everyone else i've mentioned a
compilation disk to has responded w/ a (!!) .
..i happen to know someone w/ a decent production facility...
and award-winning to boot! ;)
yesfans just released a fundraiser cd, my bud von's band ONOFFON was on MSJ's
"got prog?" compilation.
everything i'm suggesting is pretty much "tried and true",
not experimenting w/ a winning formula.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by sharcnorris

Play better music and get more listeners
As the Moon has strived to have the most complete libraries of Prog artists on the planet, it fails to recognize why some bands sell millions of CD's and some only thousands and most of us Prog. Historians never heard of. There are times I turn away from the stream because although nice, many of the lesserknowns just are not as talented. No, I don't want to see just the dino's, just abetter balance with the giants weighted for more airplay than the smaller bands. As an owner of thousands of recordings and a record dealer in the 80's, I am suprised when 6 bands are listed and none well known. Not a selling point for more listening.
We all lose Nah. The point of internet radio is to EXPOSE the lesser knowns so that they become "not-lesser" knowns.

But sharc brings up a good point on the payola idea, and that is knowing when the rq plays. Nothing would stink worse than paying for a request and then a replay of Gags or Gnosis comes on and by the time it plays you're sitting at a red light in Malfunction Junction on the way home. Scratch the payola.

What about another pay feed, say 96k for $25? Or, since there are so few $50 members, would lowering that bring in more money by volume? Do I have a freaking clue what I'm talking about? Does this have anything to do with the "busy-signal?" Is there tea in China?

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Nah. The point of internet radio is to EXPOSE the lesser knowns so that they become "not-lesser" knowns.

But sharc brings up a good point on the payola idea, and that is knowing when the rq plays. Nothing would stink worse than paying for a request and then a replay of Gags or Gnosis comes on and by the time it plays you're sitting at a red light in Malfunction Junction on the way home. Scratch the payola.

What about another pay feed, say 96k for $25? Or, since there are so few $50 members, would lowering that bring in more money by volume? Do I have a freaking clue what I'm talking about? Does this have anything to do with the "busy-signal?" Is there tea in China?

I'll take a whack at this.

In no particular order:


I'm not sure our software supports 96k. I'd have to investigate.
We pay by use, not on how many slots we have, so lowering the number of available slots would have no effect. That's what I was lead to believe, and if this isn't the case, Jim will likely correct me. But that's what I unnerstand.
Yeah, it's a good idea, just not under the model (a 1953 Edsel) that we're operating under
Yes.
Only when operating under the license granted by Charles Nelson Riley, Phyllis Diller, and in the center square, Paul Lynne!

Roger -Dot- Lee, It's really a Studabaker, but I'm not sure of the spelling.

[sharcnorris]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Nah. The point of internet radio is to EXPOSE the lesser knowns so that they become "not-lesser" knowns.


I'm not sure how many decades old, broken up bands need "Exposer"
I thought the purpose of this thread was , How to get and deliver to MORE listeners, for the Purpose of Keeping the Moon Aglow by making it a worthy business. If she wants more listeners for more income. The product has to be a more popular one.
There is plenty of room to highlight diverse, rare, and excitingly strange bands on a daily basis. I just think that During prime Listening Hours Attention can be made to the Songs we love and less to that Italion Band that released 2 lps in 1983 &4. It lights up the Listener and keep them here, more Listeners= more income. How many primetime hours are wasted on That wreached Gwhatever band that plays screeching for 25mins, I can't switch my input to CD fast enough

[VAXman]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
How many primetime hours are wasted on That wreached Gwhatever band that plays screeching for 25mins, I can't switch my input to CD fast enough
I'll check the database later. ;)

Here's something for everyone to ponder.

How many CDs have you purchased because of something you've heard here? Eh? I know it's been a few. Isn't that discovery worth something to you?

Maybe we need a PBS-like fund drive. Air some special gig/CD/etc. and offer copies for a donation to the station. I really don't know WHAT we could get or give away but... Just some more thought fodder.

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by VAXman
I'll check the database later. ;)

Here's something for everyone to ponder.

How many CDs have you purchased because of something you've heard here? Eh? I know it's been a few. Isn't that discovery worth something to you?

Maybe we need a PBS-like fund drive. Air some special gig/CD/etc. and offer copies for a donation to the station. I really don't know WHAT we could get or give away but... Just some more thought fodder.

Survey SAYS:

*DING!*

Now that's not a half bad idea. I know we've got a couple of folk around here that are in bands or have access to bands. Kirk comes to mind off hand, and I'm sure that Marillion could probably be convinced to donate a few should we decide to go that route.

But we'd need to talk to a tax person before unleashing that type of thing. I have no idea what would be involved.

I just work here.

Roger -Dot- Lee, I am not an accountant, lawyer, doctor, CVR transcription specialist, fireman, or race car driver, nor do I play one on TV.

[kirk]

sure! anything i can do.

re: P4R-

after some research at ASCAP, the station would have to
have or obtain an "interactive 2.0 license" to be able to charge a fee
for requests, a.k.a. "play for pay".
i don't know what you have now, but a 5.0 non-interactive
(designed for webcasts) limits selectable music
(I.E.-an automated request line) to 60 sec. snippets.

the minimum yearly licensing fee is $340 (just for ASCAP),
so at .10 a pop, it's not feasable.

here's da poop-
http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Roger Lee
Survey SAYS:

*DING!*

Now that's not a half bad idea. I know we've got a couple of folk around here that are in bands or have access to bands. Kirk comes to mind off hand, and I'm sure that Marillion could probably be convinced to donate a few should we decide to go that route.

But we'd need to talk to a tax person before unleashing that type of thing. I have no idea what would be involved.

I just work here.

Roger -Dot- Lee, I am not an accountant, lawyer, doctor, CVR transcription specialist, fireman, or race car driver, nor do I play one on TV.
Again, this is all "thought" fodder in hopes that we may hit upon some viable way to raise money and expand/

I know quite a few bands. I'm sure, if we made the case, we could get some studio demo or small promo track from some bands that could be compiled into a CD.

As for the "tax" situation... if it's a donation, is there any tax liability? A CD of tracks would be a "bonus". If this could be realized, AM would likely have to guarantee that the tracks would not be for sale. Artists contributing would do so as a way to promote their music as well as the music of others not contributing -- no special consideration.

[kirk]

[i]Originally posted by Vax
we could get some studio demo or small promo track from some bands that could be compiled into a CD.

haha- from that description, i had a flash of "auralmoon"
being written in pencil on notebook paper, inserted into jewel boxes.
not to worry, i think we can get good finished tracks,
develop an attractive package.

making disparate tracks recorded on a variety of
equipment at various levels isn't the easiest thing.
i PM'd PDJ a few days ago regarding production.

i guess "in for a penny..." if we proceed, i'll work out
some graphics.


As for the "tax" situation... if it's a donation, is there any tax liability?

i'm guessing that all monies taken in is taxable income.
"donations" are gifts to charitable organizations.
the difference between PBS and AM is a non-profit charitable organizations
status granted by the IRS (not easily obtained, for good reason).

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk

i'm guessing that all monies taken in is taxable income.
"donations" are gifts to charitable organizations.
the difference between PBS and AM is a non-profit charitable organizations
status granted by the IRS (not easily obtained, for good reason).

k
I was more thinking of "tax" as in sales tax. Would giving a "bonus" for a donation require any additional "sales tax".

[kirk]

no...you're not selling the cd, so no sales tax.
plus, this isn't a business. you need a tax I.D. to collect sales tax.
you have to have a business license to sell stuff.

i think this is moving in the right direction, but still
needs some tweaking.

first, forget the PBS model. you can't take in "donations".
if you take in money, no matter how you get it,
whoever's account it lands in, has to pay taxes on it.


here's a closer analogy-

do you buy girlscout cookies because they're
good cookies, or to help out the girlscouts?
my personal answer would be "a little of both".
if the cookies really sucked, would i still buy them?
probably not. can i get better cookies for cheaper? sure.
what about, if they skipped the cookies and just asked
for money? it's easier to sell cookies.

you need a good product, in a slick package that you
can get a little more out of than it's probably worth,
w/ the idea that it's helping the cause.
the other benefit is, the artists involved are out there
promoting AM on their sites, forums ect.

realistically, if this was "please help save auralmoon",
it'd be an easier sell. "too many listeners for the bandwidth"
mmm....not so much .:D
i'll bet i can find a few PRRN stations that would love
to have that problem.

k

[Rick and Roll]

look on their website. they have a CD for sale that has donated songs by bands. The money goes to help saving Prog day.

Sounds like what we're talking about.

[kirk]

EXACTLY!! the same as music street journal's "got prog?"
and yesfans, which only used site musicians.

i spoke w/steve katsikas, Little Atlas is on board
if we proceed.

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
EXACTLY!! the same as music street journal's "got prog?"
and yesfans, which only used site musicians.

i spoke w/steve katsikas, Little Atlas is on board
if we proceed.

k

Steve is a great guy. It figures he'd jump aboard.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by kirk
EXACTLY!! the same as music street journal's "got prog?"
and yesfans, which only used site musicians.

i spoke w/steve katsikas, Little Atlas is on board
if we proceed.

k

That's all you need, if it's 1/2 as good as Wanderlust!

[kirk]

it took a while for me to connect to the server.

out of respect to the victims of the hurricane,
we'll put this on hold until the situation stabilizes.

i will mention that brett kull from echolyn contacted me
before katrina hit, they're in also.

p e a c e
kirk

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by kirk


i will mention that brett kull from echolyn contacted me
before katrina hit, they're in also.

p e a c e
kirk

That's great!, he's a truly great resource, and a long-time friend of the Progressive scene...

looking better and better, thanks to you Kirk!

[kirk]

thanks rick!

new additions-
ken from birdsongs of the mesozoic is donating
an autographed cd, likely a track when he can
make contact w/ the other members.
i'm thinking the cd would be great to raffle to new
128k subscribers!

guy leblanc responded w/ a nathan mahl track.
for those not familiar, guy played guitar, co-wrote some
tunes for camel.

besides selling our comp cd, i think it'd make a great
subscription incentive. 10 or so new subscriptions
would help the expansion effort greatly.
if we go beyond that, maybe we can relieve jim of
some of the financial burden.

this is coming together fast!

p e a c e moonies-
k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
thanks rick!

new additions-
ken from birdsongs of the mesozoic is donating
an autographed cd, likely a track when he can
make contact w/ the other members.
i'm thinking the cd would be great to raffle to new
128k subscribers!

guy leblanc responded w/ a nathan mahl track.
for those not familiar, guy played guitar, co-wrote some
tunes for camel.

besides selling our comp cd, i think it'd make a great
subscription incentive. 10 or so new subscriptions
would help the expansion effort greatly.
if we go beyond that, maybe we can relieve jim of
some of the financial burden.

this is coming together fast!

p e a c e moonies-
k
Cool... Some autographed CD, etc. That's a great idea. Probably less of a hassle than getting disparate tracks from bands to include on a CD. I still think the unique nature of the later might rope in more funds but autographed CDs is an excellent bonus as well.

Time to get busy at the upcoming NJ Prog House gigs.

[kirk]

new orleans is semi-stable, i think we can get back to this.

vax- you know quite a few industry folk, any help on contributors?
(dotman says he'll buy you a brewery if
you get marillion involved).

dot- i'm having ken fields send the autographed BOTM cd
to you, o.k.?

we're going to need someone to take the design to
kinkos, have them print the insert, then cut and fold,
insert into jewels.
i'm guessing we can do this for around $2.50-3.00
per unit. i can probably twist pacific studios arm for
blank cd on disc printing for a reduced rate if you want to go
that route. it's a little nicer presentation.

some of the names i've considered are:
(all w/ the subtitle "an artist tribute to aural moon")
HELIX (alt. "THE HELIX PROJECT")
RING AROUND THE MOON
MOONROCKS...
opinions?

[kirk]

here's a sketch-

[Roger -Dot- Lee]

Originally posted by kirk
new orleans is semi-stable, i think we can get back to this.


semi stable for New Orleans. This, of course, is a very flexible concept. :D


vax- you know quite a few industry folk, any help on contributors?
(dotman says he'll buy you a brewery if
you get marillion involved).


And I mean it, too.


dot- i'm having ken fields send the autographed BOTM cd
to you, o.k.?


That's just dandy. I'll keep 'em safe until sold.

we're going to need someone to take the design to
kinkos, have them print the insert, then cut and fold,
insert into jewels.


I have three kids. I'm sure one of them can handle a pair of scissors with the minimum of hassle and bloodshed.


i'm guessing we can do this for around $2.50-3.00
per unit. i can probably twist pacific studios arm for
blank cd on disc printing for a reduced rate if you want to go
that route. it's a little nicer presentation.


Perhaps. It all depends on the cost, of course.


some of the names i've considered are:
(all w/ the subtitle "an artist tribute to aural moon")
HELIX (alt. "THE HELIX PROJECT")
RING AROUND THE MOON
MOONROCKS...
opinions?

You do good artwork. A lot better than I could.

Roger -Dot- Lee

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
new orleans is semi-stable, i think we can get back to this.

vax- you know quite a few industry folk, any help on contributors?
(dotman says he'll buy you a brewery if
you get marillion involved).


Marillion? Who are they? :D

Actually, I'm going to get the pre-order Marbles CD and have them sign it(It's a beautiful package with a 140 page booklet). Also, Pete says he owes me a few favors, so let's see if I can call one in.


Originally posted by kirk
we're going to need someone to take the design to
kinkos, have them print the insert, then cut and fold,
insert into jewels.

I have a special roller cutter that can be set up with sizing gauges to quickly and accurately cut such things (It's really for photo cutting). I also have a CD/DVD printer so if these CDs are burned on printable media, I could print them.

i'm guessing we can do this for around $2.50-3.00
per unit. i can probably twist pacific studios arm for
blank cd on disc printing for a reduced rate if you want to go
that route. it's a little nicer presentation.

[kirk]

vax- that's fantastic! you da man!!

you can do these "on demand", not have to stockpile.

i can send you a black version of whatever name/logo we
settle on to print ondisk, along w/ track listing.

i'll lay the cover out w/ discmakers templates.

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
vax- that's fantastic! you da man!!

you can do these "on demand", not have to stockpile.

i can send you a black version of whatever name/logo we
settle on to print ondisk, along w/ track listing.

i'll lay the cover out w/ discmakers templates.

k
On demand... sure.

Are they to be regular CDs? Not much fits on one. If we get too much, we may need to go the MP3 route... or have multiple editions. More money could be raised going with the later I would think.

[Avian]

The reality of the situation with us is this:

If AM adds 50 listener slots, people would fill those listener slots, and we'd bein the same position we're in now with the station being full.

If we added 100 listener slots, people would fill those listener slots, and we'd bein the same position we're in now with the station being full.

You get the idea. Because we're on Itunes, we would fill up as many listener slots as we woud provide.

Going to 80k would increase costs a lot. Adding a few more slots, depending on how much might be feasible because it wouldn't cost as much, but would add a monthly cost burden to Jim. It just creeps up and up and up.

Jim, Roger and I are looking at a few things in the future to help reduce costs, like getting a better bandwidth deal, and like Roger mentioned, moving the webserver with VAX's help.

What woud REALLY help is for people to donate _some_ bandwidth. The shoutcast application takes up almost no CPU or memory - if anyone has a machine on a T1, and could spare, say 25 56k slots, then that would help. And if we could work out a deal with a few people like that, it would really add up to make a difference. A good amount of internet radio stations work on this model. We just need to put the word out.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Avian
The reality of the situation with us is this:

If AM adds 50 listener slots, people would fill those listener slots, and we'd bein the same position we're in now with the station being full.

If we added 100 listener slots, people would fill those listener slots, and we'd bein the same position we're in now with the station being full.

You get the idea. Because we're on Itunes, we would fill up as many listener slots as we woud provide.

That's understood. However, more listeners might lend to more money. Not likely enough to maintain perpetual growth but maybe enough for an occasional growth spurt.

Originally posted by Avian
Going to 80k would increase costs a lot. Adding a few more slots, depending on how much might be feasible because it wouldn't cost as much, but would add a monthly cost burden to Jim. It just creeps up and up and up.

I think 56K slots are fine.


Originally posted by Avian
What woud REALLY help is for people to donate _some_ bandwidth. The shoutcast application takes up almost no CPU or memory - if anyone has a machine on a T1, and could spare, say 25 56k slots, then that would help. And if we could work out a deal with a few people like that, it would really add up to make a difference. A good amount of internet radio stations work on this model. We just need to put the word out.
Well, I have a T1 which is being donated for the web site as well as server for the web server.

However, a T1 (DS1) is the equivalent of 24 64K bidirectional channels. 25 slots would quickly saturate a T1.

[Wojtek]

I can do the cover if I get information about resolution of such images. I like doing covers for fun.

And if someone has good free Moon image it would be good to receive.

And I can talk with Polish bands like Quidam, Riverside or Sattellite about their contribution.

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Wojtek

And if someone has good free Moon image it would be good to receive.

Free moon image?

There's a moon in my evening sky that's free to image as far as I know! :D

[Wojtek]

Vax, if I can help (I don't know, if Kirk was just trying with his image or he is chosen to do cover) make nice photo of the Moon and send it to me. Thanks

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Wojtek
Vax, if I can help (I don't know, if Kirk was just trying with his image or he is chosen to do cover) make nice photo of the Moon and send it to me. Thanks

Woj be careful that vax doesn't send you a picture of a Moon that's a bit different than our cosmic friend!:jawdrop:

[Wojtek]

Rick, you mean pornstar Sophie Moon? =8^O

[kirk]

woj- thanks man!
i have it covered...so to speak:D
i'm laying this out to the diskmakers template,
which requires some knowledge of the graphic arts,
the printing process. everything has to be aligned
to exact specs.

i have several variations of the cover w/
the names i suggested.
i'm just waiting on some feedback to proceed,
refine the concept.

actually, most space shots are the property of
the photographer, copyrighted material.
you can't say, scour the internet for a photo,
use it w/o clearance.

[Wojtek]

OK Kirk :)

If you're posting this all let me comment. Starting point is good but how about making this more calm and 'poetic' by smaller pallette of colours in the text.

I don't want to 'gatecrash' into your imagination and artistic vision. Just small comments :)

Here is rough version of what I suggest. We can't use this image but creating it I wanted to show and suggest more subdued text.

[Wojtek]

Ah and one more thing. I contacted Quidam. They're in with one track form their newest release surREvival.

[Rick and Roll]

that's a damn cool picture.

[kirk]

thanks woj, that's what i was looking for, some feedback.:cool:

that is a nice image, but likely using it could get
us sued, unless it's one of yours.
for several reasons, i'd be against going soft on the lettering.


also, everyone please hold off on extending invites
to contribute (not you vax LOL).

i have several feelers out, so far batting 1000.
i'm trying to avoid having to pick and choose, send
"thanks, but...." notes.
that would be, to say the least, embarrasing.
if we have a problem filling the cd, then we'll open it
to suggestions.

on that note, i heard from glass hammer this morning!

k

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by kirk
on that note, i heard from glass hammer this morning!

k

did you have too much to drink?:eek:

Cool, see if they'll talk to Carl Groves too...

[Wojtek]

Originally posted by kirk
also, everyone please hold off on extending invites
to contribute (not you vax LOL).

i have several feelers out, so far batting 1000.
i'm trying to avoid having to pick and choose, send
"thanks, but...." notes.
that would be, to say the least, embarrasing.
if we have a problem filling the cd, then we'll open it
to suggestions.

on that note, i heard from glass hammer this morning!

k

But then Kirk watch out not to make American prog tribute.

I think the Moonies should consult potential band possibilities to make really nice selection for all. Then I agree that asking band without posting proposition here on the forums may cause problems.

I hope my Quidam stays. I'd rather not send "thanks, but..." :D

[Rick and Roll]

That band is something!

[Wojtek]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
That band is something!

I can write them, no problem. So, Kirk, when you give green light I'll send email to Riverside. :)

[mossy]

And Satellite, woj. One of my favourite bands. So glad to see they've released a new CD AND are slated for ROSfest in the Spring.

thank you

[mossy]

I've had no input in this project thus far so hope I'm not overstepping, and I don' t know who you have lined up so far Kirk, but I do agree with woj regarding looking at making it a global thing regarding the bands asked to contribute. If we have the connections worldwide on the Moon, why not use them.

Kirk, are you familiar with the projects put out by the Progressive Music Society? Please contact me if you'd like more info on that. It's quite extraordinary.

Thanks Kirk! Your energy is contagious.

[kirk]

thanks mossy.

this is funny..i've been trying to post a reply for over an hour,
getting a vbulletin message, "server too busy...":aua:


the bottom line, is to bring money into the station.
tributes are generally fundraisers, and they require
heavy hitters. sir paul's busy:D

i'm inviting bands that have recently released a
successful cd, done the prog festival circuit this past summer,
or are mainstays w/ a large fanbases, like echolyn.

it takes them awhile to respond, like today i heard from
glass hammer after almost 2 weeks.

there's only room for a few more tracks.
i'm betting that if vax is successful in twisting arms, ;)
some of the bands w/ larger fanbases will follow.
it's still too early to fill the available space.

woj- i've never heard of quidam before today,
but awesome band!

i don't know if i'd call them prog, but w/ a sound like that,
they should tap the newage/world market and make
some real money!
i think the enya/loreena Mckinnett fans would love this.

k

[VAXman]

Originally posted by kirk
thanks mossy.

this is funny..i've been trying to post a reply for over an hour,
getting a vbulletin message, "server too busy...":aua:


the bottom line, is to bring money into the station.
tributes are generally fundraisers, and they require
heavy hitters. sir paul's busy:D

i'm inviting bands that have recently released a
successful cd, done the prog festival circuit this past summer,
or are mainstays w/ a large fanbases, like echolyn.

it takes them awhile to respond, like today i heard from
glass hammer after almost 2 weeks.

there's only room for a few more tracks.
i'm betting that if vax is successful in twisting arms, ;)
some of the bands w/ larger fanbases will follow.
it's still too early to fill the available space.

woj- i've never heard of quidam before today,
but awesome band!

i don't know if i'd call them prog, but w/ a sound like that,
they should tap the newage/world market and make
some real money!
i think the enya/loreena Mckinnett fans would love this.

k
I'll take it up with Marillion later this week. Lucy, their band manager, was in Las Vegas getting married (to Ian Mosley -- shutter) and won't be heading home until tomorrow.

[Avian]

Kirk,

when I heard about it this project, I thought that it was a fantastic idea. Great job!!

If you have the cover done, that's fantastic. if not, let me know - I can certainly do some design for it (and even make it astronomically correct!).

Careful everyone using moon images - they are subject to the copyright laws like any other photography.

Again, what a fantastic idea - I'm so glad to see something like that come together!

[VAXman]

Originally posted by Avian
Kirk,

when I heard about it this project, I thought that it was a fantastic idea. Great job!!

If you have the cover done, that's fantastic. if not, let me know - I can certainly do some design for it (and even make it astronomically correct!).

Careful everyone using moon images - they are subject to the copyright laws like any other photography.

Again, what a fantastic idea - I'm so glad to see something like that come together!
I can always hook my camera up to the telescope and take a moon pic that would be "royalty free".

[Wojtek]

Originally posted by Avian
Kirk,

when I heard about it this project, I thought that it was a fantastic idea. Great job!!



Yeah Kirk. Your enthusiasm is marvellous! :p

woj- i've never heard of quidam before today,

And if you were European Moonie you probably would ;) :D . This is second aspect of what I said and Mossy backed up. Despite worldwide community aspect, concentrating on American bands may have negative effect from the economical point of view as we Europeans often simply don't know famous US prog bands just like you don't know well many Europeans. And in case of such album these things should be IMHO balanced. We have contacts in many corners of the world, let's make use of it. From what I remember siluancar (Madrid) was organising RPWL gigs in his city, he knows them well. Why not RPWL then. Shrinking Violet knows Mostly Autumn and she was exchanging mails with Roine Stolt I think.

I'd suggest that we put tracklist up to this day with song times to see how much CD space we have.

Mossy - I'd love to ask all that 3 Polish bands to give songs with special dedication to you :). But I am not sure if Poland is so important prog country that in case of 12 tracks 3 will be from Polish bands.

And one more thing. Maybe not official [proposition yet but thing to consider. How about our own track "Earth Without The Moon"? Call this part two of Moonies band or kind of common AM effort but I could compose and prepare all for recording, then give directly parts that must be recorded via Internet. Moses is being working with be in such way, he can confirm it cna be done. I'd need someone to help me with the poetic lyrics and of course mixing/realisation. And of course players (who wnats to sing? :p ). What do you think?

I say that is thing to consider. Haven't called it official proposition yet because of very difficult academic year I am starting in a few days. But I'll try to find my feet in the whole situation and find a time to make a new track. We shall see if this will be possible.

[kirk]

davin- thanks so much! absolutely my pleasure.
it's the tremendous effort of you, jim, dot, vax
that makes this an easy sell to artists.

steve from glass hammer said to tell you
"thanks for all you've done".

woj- it's too late in the game to address those concerns,
but noted. thanks for the input. :cool:

of course, if roine wants in, i'll find room.

i've already contacted mostly autumn.
if i don't hear from them, violet knows how to get
a message past the webmaster, please contact me.

---------------------------------------

re: photos, ect.-

simply, unless you're a design professional,
it's much less of a workload for me to do it, than
it is to try to adapt a rough idea.
there's much science under the creative aspect.

thanks for the good words everyone!


k

[progdirjim]

Originally posted by Wojtek
Maybe not official proposition yet but thing to consider. How about our own track "Earth Without The Moon"? Call this part two of Moonies band or kind of common AM effort but I could compose and prepare all for recording, then give directly parts that must be recorded via Internet. Moses is being working with be in such way, he can confirm it cna be done. I'd need someone to help me with the poetic lyrics

I've worked up a first verse:
Gazing at the stars leads to galactic aspirations
Howling at the moon became our lunar inspiration
But all within the solar system's slightly out of tune
When we consider Earth without the Moon

and I'm toying with a second verse. Let me know if you have feedback based on melodies you've already written - I could alter length or timing if needed.


and of course mixing/realisation. And of course players (who wnats to sing? :p ). What do you think?

I say that is thing to consider. Haven't called it official proposition yet because of very difficult academic year I am starting in a few days. But I'll try to find my feet in the whole situation and find a time to make a new track. We shall see if this will be possible.

[Wojtek]

I really like these lyrics very much, Jim :). So I will look at things and wait if any Moon-musicians want to be part of it. Without them that idea doesn't exist.

[progdirjim]

I should be clear for my "vision" in regards to up to 3 separate projects we're talking about.

1, Kirk is taking the lead on the artist tribute disc. This will consist of tunes from established artists.

2, separate from that, we have perhaps two separate Moonie collaboration efforts being discussed - the "basics" theme that Elric and Kirk and many other have contributed ideas towards, and Woj's "Earth Without The Moon" idea. I think both of these can be fun, but I also think we need to keep these separate from the tribute disc. There are several reasons for this, including legal, artistic, financial and social ones, so that's the direction we're taking. This may also relieve some schedule pressure from the Moonie project, making it (perhaps) more fun and more successful.

Thanks!

[roger]

Originally posted by progdirjim
2, separate from that, we have perhaps two separate Moonie collaboration efforts being discussed - the "basics" theme that Elric and Kirk and many other have contributed ideas towards, and Woj's "Earth Without The Moon" idea.
can someone provide clarification on these two projects? I have expressed interest in the Elric/Kirk tune, but I don't know anything about Woj's project. I really like the lyrics you wrote, Jim, and would like to do some singing... :eek:

[kirk]

hey-

a full band autographed cd from BIRDSONGS OF THE MESOZOIC
is on it's way to dot's house!

i'd suggest raffling it to new subscribers to the 128k,
or in some fund raising capacity.

if i don't hear something from vax on marillion soon, i'll get back to inviting
some projects. sorry brian, don't mean to put you on the spot.
so far, we have echolyn, glass hammer, little atlas,
nathan mahl....

p e a c e

k

[Rick and Roll]

hey-

a full band autographed cd from BIRDSONGS OF THE MESOZOIC
is on it's way to dot's house!

i'd suggest raffling it to new subscribers to the 128k,
or in some fund raising capacity.

if i don't hear something from vax on marillion soon, i'll get back to inviting
some projects. sorry brian, don't mean to put you on the spot.
so far, we have echolyn, glass hammer, little atlas,
nathan mahl....

p e a c e

k

I'm off in the morning to see Salem Hill...will not have much internet contact until Friday and even then it's limited until Tuesday. So post away everyone!.. oh yeah the reason I posted..sorry - kirk, i will try to mention something to Carl Groves when I'm out there..and anyone else I run into. He should be very receptive especially since Glass Hammer is involved!

If Echolyn makes it down to Orion soon maybe we can twist some arms..

Another band to try is Djam Karet...

Great job so far kirk!

[Wojtek]

so far, we have echolyn, glass hammer, little atlas,
nathan mahl....



Should I write to Quidam about cancellation of their contribution or they are also on the list?