Is XM/Sirius a threat to internet radio?

[Cozy]

I'm sure the initial reaction would be 'no', but I was just curious to get a few comments on this.

I worry a bit that the more XM/Sirius provide progressive rock programming, that more people will shift from listening to internet radio (which is in need for higher listenership) to these satellite stations, pretty much leaving internet radio in the dust do to lack of interest.

I reading a discussion recently in which a few people were very motivated to make this Sirius thing happen, occasionally siting how great it will be to hear music that they were unable to hear otherwise. That just kinda got under my sin a little.

Anyway, I was curious what you people here think of the subject.



- Cozy

[MrMagoo]

Not a chance that I'll pay monthly for somebody else to program my tastes. OTOH I gladly donate to support a community that shares my tastes.

[VAXman]

I'm sure the initial reaction would be 'no', but I was just curious to get a few comments on this.

I worry a bit that the more XM/Sirius provide progressive rock programming, that more people will shift from listening to internet radio (which is in need for higher listenership) to these satellite stations, pretty much leaving internet radio in the dust do to lack of interest.

I reading a discussion recently in which a few people were very motivated to make this Sirius thing happen, occasionally siting how great it will be to hear music that they were unable to hear otherwise. That just kinda got under my sin a little.

Anyway, I was curious what you people here think of the subject.



- Cozy
Cozy,

I was one of the initial subscribers to XMSR and I sang praises for it. There were 2 channels I listened to: The Music Lab (Prog and an eclectic mix) and Fine Tuning (many XM Studios live performances... I was even a party to one of the live performances Fine Tuning aired). I mostly listened to the Music Lab channel. When XMSR pulled the Music Lab, I pulled my subscription.

With the advent of Sirius (with assholes like Howard Stern), XMSR tried to become more Sirius like to the point where there was a blur as to whether or not they were each different. It doesn't matter anymore as they want to merge. They only need the FCC to condone the merger to move forward into one.

XMSR originally cost $10/month. When I denounced it, it was up to $15/month. I have no idea what the fee is now. However, back then, that was close to $200/yr. We can't get people to cough up $50/year for the 128K stream. Do you think people will want to pay for radio? Especially, if it is little more than the same shit they can hear on commercial FM? ...and HDFM is making its way too. Will FM radio move back to playing real music to showcase the new HDFM capabilities? Who knows? I'd doubt it.

Personally, I now pay $60/month for a Sprint EVDO card. I can listen to streaming radio (guess which one ;) ) when I'm driving in my car. More and more mobile phones are now incorporating music players and internet access. I'm not a phone person but it may be that my newest phone already provides for this. If this is the case, people can use their mobile phones to listen to streaming radio. With a little extra hardware, they can even listen to it through their car stereos. Also, many more cars are coming equipped with iPod adapters. If music is the driver's passion, I'd wager that a system with an iPod adapter will be far more appealing than a satellite radio.

[RogorMortis]

Vax has got the core of the music movement. Not only would I need to gear up to listen to satellite but it would be such a bother to listen to it all over the house and that's before deciding if the programs are any good. You can't get cheaper radio than on the internet as the FM here and everywhere else is a load of godless crap music plugged by of delinquents who love to here their own voice.
Now I've noticed NOXON wireless internet radio with Ipod which I can use all over my house to listen to AM. Just waiting for it to hit the market - Bugger Sirius - only if they played 100% prog with live performances would they be a serious player.

[jtmckinley]

My $0.02 is that unless the coporations/governments put the kibosh on it like they're trying to do right now via onerous fees, Internet radio will outlast satellite radio. As VAX noted one can already access the net even whilst driving and I predict that eventually wireless Internet access will be available anywhere on earth. Add the fact that stations like the Moon allow one to request music and have a community with forums and chat for interaction and I'd say satellite radio is fighting a losing battle. Also virtual environments like Second Life are developing Internet access (including music and video) within the virtual environment so I foresee a time when people will gather in virtual "salons" and be able to chat using voice (if desired) and listen to music as if they were all sitting around together in someone's living room or sitting in a theater watching a concert.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6186997.html

[Rick and Roll]

Everyone has different motivations. Personally, I would never buy an ipod, or otherwise ensure that the music I like is available anytime/anywhere I want it. It's just not that important to me. Doesn't matter that Sirius, or anyone else has prog. I can fill up my day with all kinds of things...and there's all kinds of things out there I don't even know about.

I don't have time to watch the History channel, Discovery, or a thousand other ways to fill up a day. There's already programming for all kinds of fun genres. XM with so-called "progressive" programming doesn't register with me.

There's a 3 hour fusion show that airs on commercial radio on Thursdays that's incredible. But I can only listen for 30-45 minutes...the point I'm making is that I wouldn't pay for anything I wouldn't get full use out of.

There will always be a niche for a community like ours, regardless of who else is out there.

[VAXman]

Everyone has different motivations. Personally, I would never buy an ipod, or otherwise ensure that the music I like is available anytime/anywhere I want it. It's just not that important to me. Doesn't matter that Sirius, or anyone else has prog. I can fill up my day with all kinds of things...and there's all kinds of things out there I don't even know about.
Then why did you increase the storage requirements of my server to post to this thread? :D


There will always be a niche for a community like ours, regardless of who else is out there.
I believe the crux of Cozy initial question is whether or not we feel having a satellite radio prog channel option would be a threat to an internet radio prog channel. It is with reference to that that your statement has relevance. Prog is a niche. There are several Prog internet channels giving listeners choice; hopefully, they find the best which is here. ;) If Sirius had a Prog channel, I doubt it would single-handedly supplant the listening needs for all of the people now hooked on Prog stations on the internet. I was listening to Aural Moon when I had the XM service and the Music Lab and Fine Tuning channels were still a part of the programming offerings. There's so much more here and I made the choice to listen to AM over the XM channels. I don't think that anything that Sirius would put together would be Sirius serious competition for what we have here.

[gr8sho92]

And don't forget about HD radio.

I know people that swear by sat radio. People that buy cars because they can listen to Sirius. This makes sense to me if you have a long commute and there is something you like and listen to often. Also keep in mind that satellite radio, unlike free radio and internet radio actually pays license fees for each song they play. I know this because I have a close friend that works at XM.

I personally have adopted the iPod for use when in my car. I like being able to summon up the entire library of <put your band here> any time I like. In my case it would be primarily italian symphonic and british prog these days.

When I'm working with my laptop, listening to AM is very easy for me. I would listen to AM in the car too and have done it using my Treo 650 but it is awkward, plus it keeps my phone from being used as a phone. I can see it likely in the near future that cars will have a built-in internet connection, and this would make listening to internet radio much simpler.

Ultimately what will matter most I suspect is whether or not gov't and regulatory bodies will impose taxes/fees or other restrictions on the internet and broadcasters as to what will and will not survive.

[gr8sho92]

Prog is a niche. There are several Prog internet channels giving listeners choice; hopefully, they find the best which is here. ;)

FWIW, here's how I found AM.

1) Bought Treo 650
2) Bought PocketTunes to listen to internet radio
3) Found RadioIO 70s channel which played 2 PFM tracks over a period of several weeks. PFM on the radio in the USA??? What a novel idea. But this channel played a lot of different genres of 70s music and wasn't focused enough on what I liked, so I started searching for progressive rock programming. If it exists at all, it will be on the internet, right?
4) After listening to several different stations around the world, this one seemed decent and I kept listening. Much music I know and love, but even more I don't know or never even heard of.
5) The clincher was the ability for listeners to request their own tracks and in essence extend the music programming model out to the entire listener community. Very cool concept.

As an aside, an article on the history of how AM came to be would be interesting to me.

[jtmckinley]

As an aside, an article on the history of how AM came to be would be interesting to me.

Hmm, I'd be interested in learning that as well, Jim?

[VAXman]

Hmm, I'd be interested in learning that as well, Jim?
I hope this doesn't go too far off course.

I want to add the the Aural Moon FAQ to the web site. I am waiting on somebody to give me a good write-up on how to listen to AM on a Weendoze box. I don't know how to properly answer the question: How can I listen to Aural Moon using a Weenoze machine? other than to say: "Get a Mac!" and then: "See 'How can I listen to Aural Moon using a Mac?'".

Anyway, one of the FAQ sections will be about station workings and history.

[gr8sho92]

I am waiting on somebody to give me a good write-up on how to listen to AM on a Weendoze box. I don't know how to properly answer the question: How can I listen to Aural Moon using a Weenoze machine? other than to say: "Get a Mac!" and then: "See 'How can I listen to Aural Moon using a Mac?'".

I'll offer to help if you tell me the format of how your FAQs are being written.

The net though is there are many players easily accessible that will work. In fact, since you are pro Apple, you can even suggest Quicktime.

Other ubiquitous choices include Realplayer. I typically use MusicMatch. I'm sure there are many others.

It is interesting to note that Windows Media Player does not support .pls format as a default.

[Mike413]

It's unfortunate that more casual fans don't look to the internet to listen to prog and in a way it seems dumb to pay to listen to something that you can hear for free(internet radio). However, at the moment you can't listen to the internet radio in your car or anywhere other than in front of your computer so satellite radio does have some advantages. I suspect as long as internet radio exists there will be plenty of people to listen to it so I feel the real threat is can the powers that be ban internet radio as opposed to not having enough prog fans to listen to it.

[VAXman]

However, at the moment you can't listen to the internet radio in your car or anywhere other than in front of your computer so satellite radio does have some advantages.
I drove 450+ miles this past week. All the time on the internet and listening to Aural Moon. It's quite doable with EVDO.

[roger]

I drove 450+ miles this past week. All the time on the internet and listening to Aural Moon. It's quite doable with EVDO.

that's why I bought an iPod...

[VAXman]

Where You live, no problem. In Germany f.e., the costs for mobile Internet connections via cell phone (GSM-GPRS-UMTS-HSDPA provider) are huge.
WiMAX, HSDPA or EVDO services are not avaiable here.
Neither is satellite radio... at least, not Sirius or XM.

My EVDO gives me rates of about .25T1 for a flat rate of $60/month. Not bad considering I can go most anywhere and have internet. I've found that I get a better connection rate when staying in a hotel with wireless simple because I am not sharing a small pipe from the wirless access point to the internet with hundreds of other hotel guests.

I think that the EVDO is the best option overall. I get internet access to so many things. I can have streaming music when I drive; thus, no need for satellite radio. I can get driving directions; thus, no need for a navigational system. Weigh that $60/month against the subscription fees for satellite radio and a navigation system subscription and I'd bet it's a wash. Plus, I get more than just music and directions. In fact, if I needed to, I could make phone calls too!

I think XM missed the boat when it came to program content. They hurt themselves and now are looking to merge with Sirius. Sirius got a late start in contrast to XM. They are both hoping that by merging they can stem the tide of the inevitable. I forsee the day when wireless internet access with be ubiquitous and, even if ubiquitous wireless is a for fee franchise, the ability to roam about on the internet will preclude many other for fee services offered now.

[OverHillandDale]

I don't see XM or Sirius as a "threat". It's mobility is good, and is easier to facilitate than internet services. It's redemtion is what it can do to breed a larger audience for the type of good music and commoradity that can be found on the internet.

Many of the sat. stations are just music, very few on-air jocks. That's a plus. We won't speak of those idiots that are nothing but talk.
That's just a waste of precious oxygen. :bash:

If we can wean folks away from standard broadcasting standards (FM/AM), then the internet becomes the epitome of the industry. It offers the best possible solution in the end. That is what one should strive for. A community of listeners sharing a common interest in their music and culture.

Sat. radio can introduce groups to these areas but they will not allow them to bond. That is why Internet radio will progress. As technology advances, it will be more accessible in a wireless world. It will only get better. Sat. radio can only be what it is now. HD radio is only an extension of regular radio. Better sounding talk jocks. :shootmeno

Sat. radio really was created because they could not create internet radio in a fast delivery system. Our only drawback. But it will come. Rest assured, however, there will be someone there to take advantage of it and try to charge us in some way and spoil it. :drdot:

So, before we :deadhorse

let's enjoy our prog community some more.:heart:

[the_original_ib]

"Personally, I now pay $60/month for a Sprint EVDO card."

Wow, I remember doing some work related to that at my last job (we delivered infrastructure for the Sprint 3G wireless network). Nice to see it ended up being useful! :)

Regards,
Sean