Early Chicago

[OverHillandDale]

I was listing to the first two Chicago albums this weekend and realize how much of an influence they are on my musical tastes changing direction as it did (along with a few others of that time like Santana and Led Zepplin).

Would adding Chicago's early work to the Aural Moon be too "outside the box" for folks? I would only do CTA, II (for sure) and III at the most.

What do you think? 8-)

[gr8sho92]

And the IVth one is the live at Carnegie Hall album. It's almost like you put a bracket around the 1970-1972 time and grab everything you can (well almost). I consider myself a big Chicago fan for their entire recording history. I may be delusional, but I'm sure I've heard tracks from CTA on here but I can't figure out where in the library it's stored.

I think the trouble I have with Chicago is the notion of horns being a cornerstone instrument for the band that's performing. Not something I typically associate with prog.

[MrMagoo]

I think the trouble I have with Chicago is the notion of horns being a cornerstone instrument for the band that's performing. Not something I typically associate with prog.

Nor violin, accordion, bassoon, hurdy gurdy, bagpipes... I've heard them all & more, maybe not as cornerstones to a band, but certainly key in songs.

IMNSHO, Chicago - although "instrumental" in my music underpinnings & still a favorite - just misses the prog genre.

[Rick and Roll]

Nor violin, accordion, bassoon, hurdy gurdy, bagpipes... I've heard them all & more, maybe not as cornerstones to a band, but certainly key in songs.

IMNSHO, Chicago - although "instrumental" in my music underpinnings & still a favorite - just misses the prog genre.

Chicago I-VII are all GREAT. 8 is not great, just ok.

As Star trek movies are mostly good in even numbers, Chicago's are odd.

VII is my favorite, then III.

While the first one is special, it's never been really prog. I did a Chicago show once but i'm not convinced they "belong" here".

What's everyone got against violin as a prog instrument? Kind of weird :)

[MrMagoo]

What's everyone got against violin as a prog instrument? Kind of weird :)

It's not what comes to my addled brain as a core instrument from prog roots. But after seeing Jean Luc Ponty, Stephen Grappeli, Daryl Anger, Mark O'connor over & over & over to see if I really like violins, I think I do.

[gr8sho92]

Chicago I-VII are all GREAT. 8 is not great, just ok.

As Star trek movies are mostly good in even numbers, Chicago's are odd.

VII is my favorite, then III.

While the first one is special, it's never been really prog. I did a Chicago show once but i'm not convinced they "belong" here".

What's everyone got against violin as a prog instrument? Kind of weird :)

Not so fast kimosabe. Being very very partial to italian symphonic sub-genre of prog, violin is a very important instrument, so I feel this one definitely belongs in the club. And to be more specific, Mauro Pagani and Lucio Fabbri, both of PFM, are tremendous talents and contributors to prog.

On Chicago, VIII was my first purchase. I actually like this album a lot. This was the next to last studio album with legendary guitarist Terry Kath and some good stuff on there, although not as poppy as some other Chicago albums.

[mossy]

To my ears they aren't something I would want to listen to when I listen to the Moon. There are so many tweeners who fall somewhere between the Moon and somewhere else. I've nothing against Chicago at all, even went to see them, but I'm not sure of the Moon Appeal...

I think Rick's done a Chicago show in the past. To me, the tweeners etc are better suited to shows than to a permanent place in the queue.

[SnardLivesHere]

OverHillandDale, I support your asumption that early Chicago would be out of the AM box. They were a big part of my formative muisical years, especially the first album. "Introduction" is still a good listen for me, along with most of CTA.
My high school "senior song" is OLD DAYS (voted by the calss), but that's not early Chicago. And my wife and I consider Colour My World as "our song", because we always slow-danced to it in school. 25 or 6 to 4, and Questions 67 and 68 were verry popular anthems back in the day. Those three songs wore out my cassette player - or was it 8-track?

Some of the edgier stuff was a bit ahead of it's time, but probably doesn't belong on the Moon.

[SnardLivesHere]

On the other hand, Queen is on the moon. Queen's second album, although containing some semi-prog elements, is basically a straightforward 4/4 time signature for most of the album, and is a good rock album. Ahead of it's time possibly, and a major influence on my musical tastes. Does it belong on the Moon? I wouldn't want it taken off. Can someone assert why it is here, but not early Chicago? The England factor? The dramatics of Fredie Mercury? The edgy lyrics, and very stylized themes? Who knows. I still would not vote for Chicago to be here. BTW, the Fairy Feller's Master Stroke is genius, IMHO.

[podakayne]

I'm sorry GOO did you miss the violins from all those wonderful japanese prog bands and what about UK?

and no one could love Chicago more then me (well maybe a few) but alas i unable to give my vote for inclusion on the moon....

loved, loved, loved the Rickter Scale show where he played it...as was present and accounted for in Chicago when they came on the scene...and thou they were a part of a resurgence of the "frackin big band---gotta brass section" (EWF, Average White and many R&B groups)

gr8sho92, you slay me with your "Not so fast kimosabe." :rofl:
and ditto the Italian prog

:insert heavy sigh: bobby, bobby, bobby


thats my $.02

[progdirjim]

speaking of violins, Kansas anyone? duh.
Rick was nice enough to upload much of the first 5-7 Chicago CDs, and while some pieces from the first two were tempting, the horns and vocals gave it just too much of a pop and/or jazz feel to my ears. neither of those meant in a bad way. A few select songs still may show up someday

[wennykelly1]

if you really sat down and review the early chicago albums, you might come up with some tracks that could fit into auralmoon. if terry kath had not passed away i'd guess he would have had some solo things for a.m.
as for queen's first two albums, these are progressive rock and i would guess that the progressive rock audience was the target. you may rememebr fm radio at one timed respected porg rock. it's still the only two queen albums i would have in my collection.

[Rick and Roll]

I'm perfectly happy with what ever shows up on the playlist. Everyone has a differing, and I think correct, view. For instance I don't consider Uriah Heep prog, but I do Iron Maiden.

A big reason I don't get to a lot of "established" bands on my show is the inclusion of so many tweeners. I figure it's good to hear every so often but on the playlist may be inappropriate. I'll realize "I haven't played band x in so long". There's already more on the list than I'll ever hear. It's a wonderful thing!

I'm not a big fan of selected songs by an artist. On every record there's a lot of variation. Is "Seamus" prog? In the end it really doesn't matter. What's here is here....

btw thanks for the nice words...

[KeithieW]

I think mossy's comment about tweeners being suited for shows and the like is spot on.

I, too, love Chicago but doubt that too many of their songs would get requested that often.

Nick Drake on the other hand......................

[gr8sho92]

I think mossy's comment about tweeners being suited for shows and the like is spot on.

I, too, love Chicago but doubt that too many of their songs would get requested that often.

Nick Drake on the other hand......................

Keith, I think the problem isn't whether or not they get requested, but rather the mere presence of that type of music in the library. SAM can always play it. I was blown away this morning when I was listening to AM and heard what I thought was some straight rock and it just flat out sounded weird as all heck on this station.

[jtmckinley]

I like Chicago's early stuff, saw them in Chicago at a free fest in the 80's (past their prime, but still an OK show), but I don't really consider them to be prog. I'm with Rick on selected songs tho, much prefer the whole album be put in even if some songs don't really fit the Moon. Just my $0.02...

[Michael]

speaking of violins, Kansas anyone? duh.


Jean Luc Ponty is pretty bad ass at the violin :)

[carlos77]

Totally agree OHD...I like all Chicago music...but for the moon guess the three first are their most progressive (if you like) work...

[Andyyyy]

To the first three I would add the instrumental side of VII. If you imagine those compositions played on different instruments, they would fit right in as prog. You have odd time signatures, polyrhythms and great playing.

[rricci]

Chicago is over when Terry Kath died!
He was the band's energy.
He was the leader.

[Rick and Roll]

Chicago is over when Terry Kath died!
He was the band's energy.
He was the leader.

Agreed that he was the energy...but the band was changing a year or so before that, and not for the better. Robert Lamm has always been Chicago, with conrtibutions by eveyone - but yes, the balance provided by Kath was crucial.

But Robert Lamm was the man.....

[joelscottiii]

Not sure I'd add this band to the rotation here, but in the early days they were indeed adventurous. For an interesting track that tries to blend the "song" format and experimentation, check out "A Hit by Varese" (V). VII, meanwhile, originally intended as a jazz album, is a nice, ecletic collection that shouldn't be overlooked despite not being one of the early lps. Then things go downhill fast (sped along by the loss of Kath).

[gr8sho92]

Well, well, well, look who fell in the well. (extra points if you remember what this was from).

So I'm looking at the new library adds and there's not one, but THREE Chicago albums. Coincidentally and independently, I started listen to Chicago on my pod and am saying to myself, I don't think this would be too far out of place on AM. Instant Karma gonna get you.

Terry Kath, RIP, was clearly an incredibly talented guitarist who left us way too early and gave Chicago a proggy edge on those early albums.

Cheers,
Carl

[Rick and Roll]

I won't get extra points but I do take issue with the adds. II's "It Better End Soon" is multiple parts, but is one piece. The way it is split is totally wrong. You'd have to have five people requesting back to back, and the parts connect and run into each other. It needs to be one piece.

Same thing with III's "Man vs Man". Try requesting just one part and listening to it. It's a powerful song but only all together as a 13 minute piece.

I also think the suite on II is split up (probably done to exclude Color My World, but it's all chopped up..

The "Hour and the Shower" suite from II has only 49 seconds of it here. (???)

Won't even go into having "Free Form Guitar" on the Moon.

Don't mean to be a wet rag, but if Chicago is added (I have and love the first eight) it should be added logically.

[OverHillandDale]

Well, Mr. Wet Rag, who is sopping up a spilt half empty glass, that is the way the cd's were set up by the group. They are labeled as separate tracks and laid out that way.

Instead of bitching and moaning, why don't YOU edit the original tracks so that they play as single tracks.

[Rick and Roll]

Well, Mr. Wet Rag, who is sopping up a spilt half empty glass, that is the way the cd's were set up by the group. They are labeled as separate tracks and laid out that way.

Instead of bitching and moaning, why don't YOU edit the original tracks so that they play as single tracks.

Before you read my detailed explanation, please understand that it matters to me not one bit what is on the playlist. If these songs stay this way, I lose no sleep, and I'm not "bitching and moaning". I'm pointing out a fact.

Dale, surely as one versed in the music you should know what I mean. Here is what I am talking about:

Chicago Chicago III An Hour In The Shower: Dreamin' Home 0:49

You want to request that? Go for it! There are plenty of instances of songs spliced together. Would you like to hear the three parts of UK's In the Dead of Night separately? Didn't think so. Dreamin Home is 49 seconds, part 4 of a 5 part song.

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: A.M. Mourning 2:07

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: Anxiety's Moment 1:01

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: Fancy Colours 5:14

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: Make Me Smile 3:16

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: Now More Than Ever 1:28

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: P.M. Mourning 2:00

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: So Much to Say, So Much to Give 1:12

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: To Be Free 1:15

Chicago Chicago II Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon: West Virginia Fantasies 1:33

Look at the record and then look at this, enough said.

Chicago Chicago III Elegy: Canon 1:05

Chicago Chicago III Elegy: Once Upon A Time.... 2:35

Chicago Chicago III Elegy: Progress? 2:35

Chicago Chicago III Elegy: The Approaching Storm 6:28

Chicago Chicago III Man Vs. Man: The End 1:34

This is an instrumental, one of Chicago's best pieces. It has a recurring theme, when connected makes sense. I doubt you would request Progress? by itself.

Chicago Chicago II It Better End Soon: 1st Movement 2:33

Chicago Chicago II It Better End Soon: 2nd Movement 3:41

Chicago Chicago II It Better End Soon: 3rd Movement 3:18

Chicago Chicago II It Better End Soon: 4th Movement 0:58

Same as the previous. One song...

I'm not blaming anybody, hell, look at Sonus Umbra's "Digging for Seroes". 20 songs, alll connected, but only 4 are stand alone.

Some longer pieces are cut into sections (Garden of Dreams by Flower Kings for instance).

No, I can't edit. I was only responding to gr8, who said Chicago I-III was on the Moon. Again if they stay this way, ok with me.

[drgeorge]

Hi Dale,
Love Early CTA. My first concert, they opened for Iron Butterfly at the Garden State Art Center in 1968. Maybe Vax was there. They will always have a special place in my heart. Maybe out of the AM box, but I wouldn't mind.

[terribletee56]

AM has a tendency once in a while to play stuff that maybe a couple of listeners think are prog, like Iron Maiden. That really rags my ass. Chicago is NOT prog, and does not belong on this station. AM plays so much great stuff, and that is why I listen. If I want Chicago, that's easy enough to find elsewhere. Thanks for letting me vent. Prog on, boys!

[Rick and Roll]

AM has a tendency once in a while to play stuff that maybe a couple of listeners think are prog, like Iron Maiden. That really rags my ass. Chicago is NOT prog, and does not belong on this station. AM plays so much great stuff, and that is why I listen. If I want Chicago, that's easy enough to find elsewhere. Thanks for letting me vent. Prog on, boys!

Tee, I'm confused. I think I have an email at home where you complimented my show for playing the Tubes (which was a request for me to play by the way). I'll check later, I'm fairly certain that's was you. Apologies if it was not, again, I will have to wait.

I wasn't aware you felt that way, sorry that you have a more narrow view of prog.

With the proliferation of the internet, etc. it is easy to find most anything you want.

Sure you may be able to find Chicago, but try to find non-commercial Chicago on the airwaves. I think it has a home here, especially if the Program Director says so.

But at least you find some stuff you like, that is a good thing.

[spewie]

I have to agree with Mossy on this one, although Chicago is a great band I am not sure I would include it in the Moon library. I am also a Blood Sweat and Tears fan and although there is a lot of there stuff that could work on the moon, I see them more as a R&B band more than a prog band, in my mind Chicago falls into the same category. I would love to hear a Blood Sweat and Tears show though...nudge, nudge, wink, wink :winkies:

[SnardLivesHere]

Early in this discussion (before Jim made the adds) I squawked that I probably thought Chicago did not have a place on AM. I have to say, in retrospect I am glad that some of the early stuff is here. Jim - you da man. I would like to see some of the tunes zipped together for a contiguous (love that word) listening experience.

[Rick and Roll]

I would like to see some of the tunes zipped together for a contiguous (love that word) listening experience.

Thank you - I got into a little more detail than necessary in my original post.

[progdirjim]

Well, well, well, look who fell in the well. (extra points if you remember what this was from).


Bud from the Little Rascals was in the well!!

[VAXman]

Can we now have Al Stewart? :roll:

[carlos77]

I REALLY LOVE CHICAGO...For my age I discovered the pop era first...but by a mile their early work is their best. I like Chicago albums from CTA to VII, but to be honest the only material that has to be considered prog should be their first three albums...and some tracks...for instance 25 or 6 to 4 is clearly a straight rock song...and the suites included in the second and third are very prog for my point of view. Now their big band sound (trombones and trumpets) must be quite annoying for some prog fans. I understand if some prog sites doesn not include Chicago in their lists. Now If the moon has it I don't have any problem...I really dig them :) It's a matter of taste

[Rick and Roll]

The songs are already here on the Moon, and added as Jim has decided. Maybe down the line the suites will be linked, but that's if there's time.

Some of the music on V and VII (unlike Star trek movies, the odd # Chicago records are more interesting!) are just as proggy, but that's for another day.

As for Al Stewart.....great music but not exactly for the Moon I would imagine. Just a litttttttle bit different than early Chicago.

[VAXman]

The songs are already here on the Moon, and added as Jim has decided. Maybe down the line the suites will be linked, but that's if there's time.

Some of the music on V and VII (unlike Star trek movies, the odd # Chicago records are more interesting!) are just as proggy, but that's for another day.

As for Al Stewart.....great music but not exactly for the Moon I would imagine. Just a litttttttle bit different than early Chicago.
Well, I like Chicago too but I find that you're stretching it to call it prog and make the case for it fitting here -- much like GFR Closer To Home and I am/was a big early GFR fan too.

I never saw the Star Trek movies, so the numeric comparison is insipid.

[KeithieW]

Now about those Nick Drake albums..... :)

[Rick and Roll]

Well, I like Chicago too but I find that you're stretching it to call it prog and make the case for it fitting here -- much like GFR Closer To Home and I am/was a big early GFR fan too.

I never saw the Star Trek movies, so the numeric comparison is insipid.


I had to look up insipid....thought it meant evil 8-o

Trek fans (not Trekkies in this case) agree that II, IV, and VI are excellent movies, and I, III, and V are not.

But I didn't make the call for Chicago...my vote's not really that important as to inclusion. I wouldn't be requesting them anyway from the Moon. But maybe a younger listener may get a feel for the more interesting stuff.

[SnardLivesHere]

By the way Rick, who is that purple guy in the picture with you?

[VAXman]

I had to look up insipid....thought it meant evil 8-o
Maybe you were thinking of the word insidious? Insipid is weak.

[Rick and Roll]

Maybe you were thinking of the word insidious? Insipid is weak.

I think you're right.


Snard - That's Barney Fife impersonating a purple Greg Lake. :smirk:

[progdirjim]

By the way Rick, who is that purple guy in the picture with you?


That may be the funniest post ever - at least until Rick changes his avatar again... 8-)