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KeithieW
03-30-2003, 03:27 AM
I know it will be difficult to say what your favourite gig of all time would be but I'd love to know what gig sticks in your mind as an special moment in time.

As I write I'm thinking back to a Yes gig at Wembley Empire Pool back in 1978. They played the concert "in the round" with a revolving stage and were showcasing the Tormato album.

A little way into the set they played a medley of songs including Time and a Word, Long Distance Runaround, The Fish, Perpetual Change and Soon.

It was during The Fish, with Chris hammering out the riffs that Jon was spotlighted and Sang "Survival, they take away and they give........." The orchestral keyboards of Rick soared out in a glorious sweeping chord and I really thought that things couldn't get much better than this. That moment has stayed with me ever since. A special moment in time.

There have, of course, been many gigs since that left me feeling elated but that particular moment..............WOW!!!!!:D

**********************************************

I've just noticed that this moment is actually on the playlist!!!!!

I can't believe it!!!!! I'm actually there in the Audience getting totally blissed out.

ivan_2068
03-30-2003, 10:43 AM
I can remember two which that are very special for some circunstance:

1.- Sep. 1993 Lima - Perú, Rick Wakeman: This was rhe first important concert played in Lima, because we always get third class (or almost dead) artists. Rick was here at 10:00 in the morning, but the instruments were not. Because a confusion with Iatta codes the instruments went to Paraguay (Pa) instead of Perú (Pe).
The concert was programed for 9:00 pm, with a full auditorium of 7,000 thousand fans, but the concert started at 1:00 am, the incredible thing was that nobody left the hall, Rick was so moved that played extra time (until 4:00 am) , and surely gave his best, he was so happy that he came back two more times.

2.- Oct 1994? Lima - Perú, Jethro Tull: This was the group's second concert in less than a year, and as he always does, Ian started to jump and play around the stage, sudenly he vanished, the stage broke and his leg also did. We thought the concert was over, but he asked for a chair sat down and gave one more hour of music. He must have been in great pain but sung as if nothing had happened. Really I never saw such a demonstration of professionalism in my live.

Iván

Rick and Roll
03-30-2003, 08:34 PM
Some special moments:

1) 1979 Tull - Ian Anderson in Pirate garb, with Dave Pegg just joining the band, watching a 14-year old puke during the flute solo, encoring with "Minstel In the Gallery". Cheers!
2) Seeing Randy Rhoads in 1981.
3) King Crimson 1982. The ultimate lineup. Robert Fripp is a god.
4) Return to Forever, 1983. I'm still in awe!
5) Seeing George Carlin and Pat Travers in the same evening at two different venues. If I play my cards right, I can see Carlin and Echolyn on 4/26. Now that's weird.
6) Ulrich Roth, with Clive Bunker on drums, at a hole-in-the-wall bar in 1985.
7) Seeing Crack the Sky 12 times, and having the privilege of seing Echolyn and Iluvatar in their infancy at very intimate venues. Long live prog!
8) Discipline at Progday in 100 degree heat - 1998.
9) Anekdoten at Progscape in 1994 doing a jaw-dropping version of "Starless".
10) Deep Purple 8/11/88 at Hammerjack's in Baltimore on a same day, previously unannounced free show. I waited 7 hours to get in, wore a mixed drink on my head, and loved it. Did not appreciate the 15-second tease of "Rat Bat Blue", but last I checked, I wasn't involved in the set list.
11) Tull on Veterans' Day, 1987 - a foot of snow, nothing else open in the city. Played Dun Ringill and Wind-Up. Ian wore the same overcoat in unbearable heat the ensuing summer. Entertained audience members on the couch set up on stage left.
12) And finally, Joe Satriani, Stu Hamm, and Jonathan Mover tearing up Hammerjack's in 1988 for $5. I have never seen a trio dominate like those guys. My ears are still ringing!

KeithieW
03-31-2003, 01:05 PM
Some great ones there Ivan and Rick. I've seen Tull quite a few times myself over the years but ones that stick in the mind the most are:

1) 1972 at the Royal Albert Hall. My first Tull gig. They performed the whole of Thick as a Brick (still my favourite Tull album). It seemed to start late but then I noticed that there were a whole load of people wearing brown coats and tarten caps sweeping and cleaning the stage. After a few minutes they dwindled in number until there were only five of them left. All of a sudden off came the coats and caps and it was the band. Ian with his flowing Anderson tarten coat (Man, he must have been hot), tights and cod piece. Straight into TAAB with Aqualung, Locomotive Breath and a 20 minute Wind up as an encore.

2) The following year, 1973, at the Empire Pool Wembley, showcasing A Passion Play. Throbbing Heart beat sound with a pulsing spot of light that got bigger and bigger as the Heart beat got louder. The Story of the Hare who lost his Spectacles was hilarious.

I've never been disappointed by Tull live. They always put on a great show and I think it's terrific the way Ian has adapted his singing style to counter for his throat problems.

Long may they continue!!!

ivan_2068
03-31-2003, 08:49 PM
I've never been disappointed by Tull live. They always put on a great show and I think it's terrific the way Ian has adapted his singing style to counter for his throat problems.

That's absolutely true Keith, the first time Tull came to Lima the concert also seemed to start late, until an old lady entered the stage with a broom and started to clean the floor, almost all the audience laughed when the "old lady" began to scratch her butt.

But then she turned around, broke the broom with her knee and the flute jumped to her hands as the old clothes fell off (don't ask me how he managed to do that in a couple of seconds). "The old lady" of course was Ian who started to play "With You There to Help Me" from Benefit album dressed as a medieval flute player.

The audience went mad, this guy really knows how to win the audience in a second.

Iván

Rick and Roll
03-31-2003, 09:36 PM
I really envy you, man. The heyday of those great bands were the 70-77 period. It's mind boggling the number of fantastic artists there were. There are so many bands I never saw, such as Gentle Giant. Tull doing the entire TAAB and also doing Passion Play the next year? Wow.

Please fill me in on any other shows from that period that stand out.

KeithieW
04-01-2003, 01:20 AM
Other 70s shows that stand out?
OK! Here goes:
1) Genesis live in 1973 at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane. They were doing Selling England....that tour and needless to say encored with Suppers Ready. At the end, as they get into the "And it's...........hey babe" reprise, I was thinking that it was odd that Gabriel was still wearing his black cape but not for long. On the note of "Hey babe" the cloak dropped to the ground and PG flew up into the air wearing a silver suit. He sang the rest of the song hanging from the wires with a bright white spotlight. Rays of light bouncing off the suit in all directions. Stunning effect. Completely blew me away.

2) Genesis doing The Lamb at the Empire Pool Wembley. Great show! I saw the Tribute band ReGenesis do a performance of The Lamb a while back and while they were good, very good, it wasn't the same.

3) Yes showcasing Tales from Topographic Oceans at the Rainbow in November 1973. The album hadn't been released and the looks on the faces of the fans was amusing. some (like me) loved it. Others couldn't get their heads round it at all. They must have all been Music Critics. Some of the headlines in the press were very scathing "Yes-Close to boredom" is one I remember.

4) Yes at QPR football ground in 1975. Their one and only tour here with Patrick Moraz. It was great to here this incarnation play "Ritual" from Tales........Moraz's keyboard style was SO different to Rick's.

5) Focus at any of the Sunday Joints......every gig different from the last.

6) 1973 and Hawkwind do "Space Ritual Alive" to the nation. Wow! I'm amazed I remember it as well as I do..........if you get my drift!!!! Heady days.

I would have loved to have seen Return to Forever. The closest I got was to see them do "Romantic Warrior" on the TV in a Studio Gig.

And my greatest disappointment? Someone offered me a ticket to go and see Miles Davis at the Royal Festival Hall and I turned it down to get drunk with some mates. Miles died a while later and I never got to see one of the greatest musicians who EVER lived.

Yesspaz
04-01-2003, 11:03 AM
I saw Appleseed Cast at a tiny club in Jackson, MS called Martin's last June. They played a mixture of songs from Low Level Owl and Mare Vitalis. It was LOUD, and there were only abouot thirty people there, but that's what you gotta do to catch the new wave of art-rockers - Shun the Radio.

It was a great show.

Rick and Roll
04-01-2003, 09:11 PM
for your experiences. I would have really like to have seen Focus. Great line about the "music critics".

clactdj
04-06-2003, 11:08 AM
I would have loved to see Focus also.

Actually, I had a buddy ask me to go see them (didn't even know they were coming to town). We arrived at The Omni (the old building where Phillips Arena is now) at 7:30. The concert was to begin at 8:00. We noticed there were only about 3000 people there. I never heard a radio ad for the concert, so it was no wonder. We noticed roadies coming and going on stage all this time. By 9;30, people were getting very upset. By 9:45, promoter Alex Cooley came out (lights had not dimmed- BAD NEWS!). The bands equipment truck had broken down in Alabama, the show was CANCELLED! ..."But our opening act, Lynyrd Skynyrd, will play over the Omni PA system for those who wish to stay. Just move around to the seating behind the stage."

This was a Tuesday evening. Their new album was just released to the local college station, and came out in stores that week. They played most of their debut album, and they really rocked. Free Bird was played in the studio album style, NOT with the frilly piano on the live album. A memorable moment was when Ed King's Fender Twin Reverb started smoking near the end of Free Bird. I've never heard that small of a crowd cheer so loud .

Another memorable show:
Listen to "Utopia Theme" from Todd Rundgren's Utopia. Now picture yourself listening to that show live in a huge castle courtyard with stars twinkling above in the night sky. Then, notice that it's played over a full-blown high resolution Quadraphonic sound system!

This show was a $5.00 general admission show at the Fox Theater. People were pushing up to the doors in the main foyer. Todd came out and got on some folk's shoulders to urge people to "move back"! He opened playing solo works from Something/Anything, A Wizard, A True Star (with backing tapes!) and his current album, Todd. Not bad.

The band came out and Todd announced they were doing a live recording of the band's theme song. "We've recorded in two other cities, so you have a one-in-three chance of becoming famous!" The sound quality was FANTASTIC! The quad system was used to great effect during the synthesizer break prior to the vocals. If you listen closely, you can hear me yell yeah (ya-uh) in the background.
The performance was perfect, no overdubs on the album.

KeithieW
04-06-2003, 12:44 PM
Clactdj.

After the question about "Schizzy" in the quiz forum I went and bought 3 Utopia albums. I haven't listened to them yet but following on from this post I'm going to listen out for you.

KeithieW
04-07-2003, 04:02 AM
I heard you!!!

What I also heard was an amazing album.........Ye Gods!! How have I gone so long without knowing this album. I bought Ooops! Wrong Planet years ago and loved it, especially Love is the Answer.....being an old peace loving hippy at heart. But this!!!! I think it's going to be on my deck for ages.

I can only imagine how you must have felt sitting there with this whirling around your head. What a buzz.

Thanks man, you've done me a HUGE favour!!

Must go and start the player again.....see ya!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

clactdj
04-07-2003, 06:05 PM
Keith-

I bet you'd like "Another Live" also. Not as good, but killer versions of "Do Ya" and "Just One Victory".

I really didn't care much for any of the other Utopia studio albums. I love the following Rundgren solo works:

Something/Anything
A Wizard/A True Star
Todd

I wish he'd do some albums like these again....{sigh}.

BTW.... my name is

Keith Ling

KeithieW
04-08-2003, 02:31 AM
Good to know you Keith.......there are more of us Keiths than people think!

I've got a copy of Something, Anything and love it too. My sister played me I saw the light (she'd bought the single) when it first came out and I thought that if the rest of the album is as good as that I'd be mad not to buy it. I went to the record shop only to discover it was a double album and I didn't have enough money. I did manage to buy it a couple of weeks later and still play it often.

I'll definitely look out for the others you recommend.

Take care man!

Tayo
04-11-2003, 10:11 AM
Ahh favorite gigs.....I base my criteria on SOUND and sound only. Although some of my favorite shows have been ones with elaborate staging,lighting,and visuals such as E.L.O.`s tours of the 70`s, some Yes tours with the Roger Dean staging, Pink Floyd`s mammoth stadium tours. I`m going to list the best SOUNDING shows I have been to.The best sounding concert by far was Supertramps "Breakfast In America" tour in 1979.It was almost like they put on a CD (even though they weren`t invented yet) and faked playing their instruments.They sounded that good. A close second was the Kansas "Left Overture" tour in 1977 at one of the true great concert halls in the U.S.A....the Tower Theater in Upper Darby Pa. Simply outstanding. I have seen them numerous times after this show and although they always deliver a fine concert....they haven`t come close to this tour. Other great SOUNDING shows were 3 Yes tours...the "Relayer tour of 1975, the "Solo" tour of 1976 and the "In The Round" tour of 1979. Near perfect sound on all 3 tours. I have seen Yes 15 times and I always get my $$$$ worth. Pink Floyd`s "Animals" tour in 1977 was also one of my faves. Great sound. It was probably the most anticipated concert of my life, and they did not disappoint.
That show blows away the 80`s and 90`s Floyd tours.Maybe it was Roger Waters. Genesis "Trick Of The Tail" tour was another truly great sounding concert. Alot better then the 80`s Genesis tours.I wonder how this tour compares with Genesis w/ Peter Gabriel tours? Electric Light Orchestra Part 2 with the Philadelphia Orchestra was near perfect. Better sound then the 70`s but with no elaborate staging or lighting. Although Jeff Lynn was missed on some songs. As you can see....after close to 300 concerts in my life, the progressive rock bands stand out as the best SOUNDING shows of my life. Other great sounding shows were J.Geils Band, Journey, The Kinks, Jethro Tull, Peter Frampton, Boz Scaggs,Night Ranger,Asia,Crack The Sky,Eric Clapton,Jefferson Starship,The Cars,Hall and Oates,Bob Seager and The Silver Bullet Band,UK,INXS,Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers,Rush,and Jackson Browne.

black max
04-25-2003, 02:48 PM
King Crimson, the Agora Ballroom, Atlanta GA, 1981, Discipline tour. I ate an entire sheet of LSD a half-hour before hitting ground zero. We sat at a table fifteen feet from the stage, drank overpriced Molsons, and after suffering through some wannabe U2/Big Country band, saw the most incredible set I've ever been privileged to see. Fripp is, indeed, a god, though he's chosen to lay back a good bit now and let Belew and Gunn provide much of the firepower for the latest incarnation (he still provides the structure and can let 'er rip when he chooses). But nothing can touch that foursome of Fripp, Belew, Levin, and Bruford. That group touched heaven.

The bunch of us, dosed, dazed, and beyond overjoyed, drove halfway home, stopped at a Waffle House where we were served omelettes that looked like footballs sliced lengthwise, made it another hour or so, and stopped around 4 am at some friend's house in Alabama, where we slept the clock round and managed to trundle back home many, many hours overdue. Fun!

Biggest dichotomy between "good" opening band and "great" main attraction was Saga and Jethro Tull in 1984 ? , Merriwether Post, Washington DC. Sorry, Saga fans, but they were the absolute gut-wrenchingly worst excuse for a prog band that I've had the misfortune to be exposed to. Everything that is wrong with prog music was demonstrated by that bunch of pompous larda$$es that night. Of course Tull (the Broadsword tour) blew them away. (Watching twenty or so guys in white hospital johnnies stalking each other around the stage during "Watching Me Watching You" was easily worth the price of admission.)

*edited to correct bad date

Rick and Roll
04-25-2003, 04:44 PM
I was at the exact same show. Saga played two years later at the Bayou in Washington DC (a now defunct club, one of my favorite places). They were incredible. The Saga show we saw was not to be done in an open air ampitheater. sSrry, they are really good live - you can't like their stuff in a large crowd, wasted. That's no excuse to trash them.

If you have ever seen opening acts such as Hawaii (ELP), Satan's Three (Sabbath/BOC), you will understand what I mean. I've been to over 300 shows. I've seen bad.

Saga - They're far from pompous.

black max
04-28-2003, 11:46 AM
Saga: I've heard very little of their studio music and I've seen them live once, so I have little to go on. On that one night, though, they were execrable. (And I wasn't *nearly* as trashed that night.) Anyway, it's all opinion, man.

Worst opening band I've ever seen was whoever that was fronting Live on the "Distance from Here" tour. The rest of the band wore black and tried to imitate Bush; the singer had waist-length scarlet dreadlocks, a green PVC jumpsuit, and was channeling a combination of Johnny Rotten and Yoko Ono while indulging in an embarrassingly self-conscious set of stage, uh, gyrations. Give me Saga any day.

Rick and Roll
04-28-2003, 05:35 PM
cool word - what does it mean? I'd like to use it sometime. Anything to do with excretion?

KeithieW
04-29-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
cool word - what does it mean? I'd like to use it sometime. Anything to do with excretion?

ex·e·cra·ble
adjective.
Deserving of execration; hateful.
Extremely inferior; very bad: an execrable meal.

Says it all really!!!!

Extended Play
04-29-2003, 09:13 AM
Mine would be seeing King Crimson in 2000 at the Nashville warm-up shows for the ConstruKction Of Light tour. Although they were full of train wrecks, the two shows I saw were the best concerts I've been to so far (well, excepting Rush on the Vapor Trails tour). The improvs in particular were amazing!

Tommy

black max
04-29-2003, 11:30 AM
Saw KC in February '03, in a converted aircraft hanger in western NC. Absolutely amazing. I saw them on the ConstruKction tour and thought that they were finally, sadly, going to fade into the sunset on us -- at that concert they were almost "doing it by the numbers," very rote and uninspired. Belew was trying to liven things up by mugging at the audience and Gunn was his usual splendid, Zen master self, but the show just didn't work. I thought they were done. Then I saw them a couple of months ago and was flabbergasted. Mastelotto has figured out his role in the band and is having fun, Belew came out stripped for battle and fought with his guitar all night (it was a draw, and an epic battle it was), Gunn was again his usual calm, splendid self, and Fripp looked...almost pleased, as if his recalcitrant pupils finally had it right. The energy level should have lifted the place right up off the planet, and the audience panted so hard for more that the band gave up 3, count em 3, encores. Interesting sidebar: they've completely excised everything pre-Thrak from their repertoire, and that only in the encore ("Vrooom Vroooom" and "Dinosaur"), and are focusing almost exclusively on music from their last two albums along with plenty of improvs and the occasional ProjecKct piece ("Deception of the Thrush"). Now, this is from February; no guarantees what you'll see if you go to see them now, but even if they're playing beer hall polkas, they're very much worth seeing.

(Note: I am aware that, like any other band, KC has their good nights and their bad nights. I'm sure they've come out limp as wet noodles once or twice on this tour, and I'm sure they raved some venues down on the 2000 tour. I've seen them almost a dozen times since 1981, and I've never seen them look so flat and uninspired as when I saw them in 2000. I honestly thought that they had finally reached the end of their rope. Thankfully I was wrong, wrong, wrong!)

Rick and Roll
04-29-2003, 08:49 PM
saw them a month or so ago - very crunchy and even bluesy. Fripp's still got it. The night before (they did two nights) Belew was sick, so the other three played without him. I would rather see that and Belew as an opening act. That would be two better shows. Belew in the 80's-90's at intimate venues was his best. There's too much repitition in his vocal tunes nowadays. But he's still needed to liven things up a bit.

black max
05-05-2003, 11:13 AM
ProjeKct 3 was Fripp, Gunn, and Mastelotto. Overall, not my favorite of the 5 "ProjecKct" bands, but they produced some worthy music.

Belew is an integral part of the band, both live and in the studio. He, along with Fripp, writes the majority of the material, and on stage he provides a great deal of the energy and the "firepower." Though I would have been very interested to see how a Belew-less KC handled things.

Side note: I'm glad to see Trey Gunn is getting a following among Crimson fans. He was sorely underutilized and underappreciated in the "double trio" lineup. He's amazing.

KeithieW
05-06-2003, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by black max

Side note: I'm glad to see Trey Gunn is getting a following among Crimson fans. He was sorely underutilized and underappreciated in the "double trio" lineup. He's amazing.

I saw the "Double Trio" lineup at the Royal Albert Hall in Londaon and thought the same as you Black max. He was underutilized but it was still a fantastic gig.

I'm sure I've got a recording taken from the tour somewhere. I'll have to dig it out and have another listen.

Thanks for reminding me about that!!!

Extended Play
05-07-2003, 12:48 PM
I can't believe I forgot about the Col. Les Claypool & His Fearless Flying Frog Brigade show I saw in New Orleans over Mardi Gras about three years ago (I think). That has to be one of my favorite all-time shows.

We got to the venue early (right by Lee circle @ the arts warehouse thingy) and were standing around the loading dock when this beatnik-looking guy with dark shades walks up and bangs on the loading door. It was only after he ducked under that we realized it was Les coming in from a parade. Unfortunately, the show itself was about 2 hours late. However, we got there early enough to be right in the front of the line.

When the gates finally opened, we managed to deposit our sad carcasses right in the front behind the barricades on the left side of the stage. It's maybe an understatement to say that it was just a good position, as we could clearly see Les & Eenore flailing about.

Probably the greatest thing about the performance was the seemingly free-form setlist. They went right into a cover of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (as Col. Claypool's Flying Frog Brigade), and segued into a version of With A Little Help From My Friends. Needless to say, I was in odd-ball heaven. That was shortly followed by Thela Hun Ginjeet. After that, it's all a blissful blur. I'm not sure if it was the huge green cloud or the music that took me under, but I'd love to get a copy of this one. The sound was absolutely horrible though. Oh well, it's nice to have, but a funky groove is better.

I'm pretty sure a few of the songs on there went on to be developed for Purple Onion, especially one that involved a single string bass with a hand crank on the tuner! Les would hit it with the drum stick and crank tighter or let it loose for the note & effect.

Galactic was supposed to come on after. By that time, it was about 1 and we'd been on our feet all day, so we just said 'screw it'. We'd already had our fill.

Tommy

ÄlveKatt
05-13-2003, 01:33 PM
I was born in 1980. Gah! It seems i have missed loads of good experiences by just being too young!

But i went to see Ayreon/Star one live last year. And it was an experience that litterary blew me away. It's definately the best concert i have ever been to.

Progressive rock seldom tours to Sweden it seems. I had to go to Holland to see the Ayreon/Star one koncert. (It was worth it, and then some!) A live cd/dvd from the very concert i was at has come out now by the way.

I think this was the first prog concert i have ever been to. I know that Jethro Tull has been here, and Spock's beard together with Dream Theater. But back then i still didn't know how good music it was. (Aargh!)

Anyway, the second best concert i have ever been too was King Diamond. I like to think that what he makes can be called progressive metal, but i tend to get outvoted on that pretty quick so, i don't know. It was a very enjoyable experience however that may be.

Then on third place i think i must place Moonspell. I tend to think that they have a bit of progressive touch as well. But i get outvoted on that just as fast as when i say King Diamond is so. It was good anyway.

Next, i am hoping to see Mind's eye live, they should tour Sweden sooner or later i gather.

Rick and Roll
05-14-2003, 06:57 AM
I dressed up as King Diamond for Halloween parties for a few years straight. Great Fun. Mercyful Fate was always pretty good. There's a ridiculous tune called "The Phone Call" that always makes me laugh.

KeithieW
05-14-2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I dressed up as King Diamond for Halloween parties for a few years straight. Great Fun. Mercyful Fate was always pretty good. There's a ridiculous tune called "The Phone Call" that always makes me laugh.

Sounds a laugh Rick......you got any photos you care to post for OUR delight?

black max
05-14-2003, 10:03 AM
>>>I like to think that what he makes can be called progressive metal, but i tend to get outvoted on that pretty quick so, i don't know.

It doesn't matter what the label is, it matters that you like it. A lot of the thrash/punk/new wave bands I like would make the average "Prog Day" audience run for their lives.

zvinki
05-14-2003, 03:31 PM
Now you've jogged my memory, Extended. The best concert that I have ever been has to be the first time that I saw Primus. It was the summer of 1996 in an arena in downtown Toronto. I went with a buddy very early in the day and decided to get slowly and thoroughly pickled in a restaurant/bar across from the arena. We finally managed to get up and glide into the arena for the concert. We got in when the lights were on and pushed our way to about 6 rows from the stage anticipating a lame opening act but wanted a good spot for Primus. The lights go down and when the first bass chord is struck we find out that we are in the middle of the mosh pit and we missed the opening act. My glasses go flying (I eventually find them and stuff them into my shorts), we decide to join the crowd and have a hell of a time. All this at the age of 36!! Les Claypool's playing has to be seen to be believed!!

ivan_2068
05-14-2003, 09:36 PM
Maybe some of you know about Frágil, a peruvian symphonic prog' band from the late 70's - early 80's, they have one great album "Avenida Larco", but back to the point.

This band started doing covers of Genesis, Yes, etc . Around 1977, when I was 13 only listened to radio music (and Roundabout), but a friend's older brother told me to go with a group of guys and see this progressive band that was the opener for the most popular pop band in Perú (You).

Honestly I went to see "You" but I noticed the audience was not normal for a POP concert, almost all were males with long beards and hair, almost as left oriented intelectuals.

The concert started with a guy dressed with a strange hat and a flower in his teeth singing a strange song named I Know What I Like, amazing a new world opened for me, then he started to tell stories while the other musicians tuned theit instruments, the next songs were 11th Earl of Mar, Close to the Edge, Stairways to Heaven and Supper's Ready, the crowd was really thrilled.

After a couple of hours the lead singer from You (the Pop band) climbed the stage and said: "Well guys you are here to see us so give a warm applause to Frágil and let's Rock with YOU!!!!!!!.

Bad mistake....the crowd went mad, they started to throw objects to the stage like cans, beer bottles, etc everybody was shouting the name of Fragil.

The poor guy from You started to sing "Silly Love Songs" and it was worst, 50% of the audience went out (included myself) and the other 50% was shouting and throwing things, 2 or 3 blocks away I could listen the name Frágil shouted by the crowd.

This concert changed my life and my understanding of music.

Iván

Rick and Roll
05-14-2003, 10:28 PM
I have one picture. What makes it stupid looking is that I am holding an umbrella (not your standard Metal fare).

But the better ones are me dressed as a woman (on a dare, of course).

Primus is one band I've never seen and would have liked to!

KeithieW
05-15-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I have one picture. What makes it stupid looking is that I am holding an umbrella (not your standard Metal fare).

But the better ones are me dressed as a woman (on a dare, of course).

Primus is one band I've never seen and would have liked to!

Avian, Is it possible to post pics up on the threads?

If it is let us know how and Rick could give us all a giggle.......I could do with a laugh right now!!!

black max
05-15-2003, 10:38 AM
Ivan, what a cool story.

I was at an outdoor concert in Chapel Hill, NC in 1982 with Grandmaster Flash, The Producers, U2, and Todd Rundgren (tells you how long ago it was that U2 was opening for Rundgren or anyone). The audience didn't understand or appreciate what GMF was doing, and the Producers (lightweight Cars wannabes) just bored them. Everyone was there for U2 and/or Rundgren, with the audience topheavy for U2. The Producers wound their way through their flaccid little set, obviously choosing to end with their one hit, "Lucy" or "Lucille" or something. Towards the end of their set, the front guy called out, "What is it that you wanna hear?" Besides channeling Lynyrd Skynrd, he was expecting all of us to yell back, "Lucy!" Instead, the crowd thunders out in one voice, "YOOOOOO TWOOOOOO!" Poor guy was rocked back on his heels, the band chugged through their last song, and they fled, never to be seen again (at least not by me).

U2 was tremendous, with Bono climbing the scaffolding during a lightning storm and doing "Singing in the Rain" (the entire concert took place during a monsoon). My girlfriend at the time got sick of being wet and insisted we leave before Todd got on stage. Like the whipped puppy I was, I gave in, and missed a chance to see solo Todd do his thing, urrgghh.

KeithieW
06-26-2003, 01:03 PM
We've had a lot of new members and posters join the forum recently and I'd like to get this thread going again. Mainly because I'm a Nosey S.O.B. but also because I like hearing about other people's good experiences. So..........the original question was:

I know it will be difficult to say what your favourite gig of all time would be but I'd love to know what gig sticks in your mind as an special moment in time.

C'mon you new AMers. Get divulging........

black max
06-27-2003, 03:11 PM
Probably the most ambivalent I've ever felt about a concert was watching Lou Reed on "The Blue Mask" tour. He played a terrific set, but the venue was all wrong -- an auditorium usually used for lectures and chamber music, so the audience was restricted to its seats. It was almost impossible to move, much less mosh, and Lou was visibly angered by the "unresponsiveness" of the audience. You could see him deciding, "Fine, we'll just run through the material like we're in rehearsal, and to hell with this bunch of dead asses." He played "White Light White Heat" for the encore -- tremendous energy, terrific rendition, nearly tore my head off, and all I could do was stand up and cheer. He and the band finished the encore and bolted.

I always felt the audience let him down, but I'm not sure how much was the audience's fault. We literally could barely move due to the cramped seating (I'm talking seats with the movable desks attached).

Anyway, maybe this thread will gain a little life.

dinosaur
06-27-2003, 04:58 PM
After seeing a good number of the big name acts in the big arenas in the seventies, I became a bit tired of battling poor sound quality and endless streams of people more interested in getting another beer than in listening to the music (Pink Floyd, however, was an exception on the sound quality).
I saw the Tony Levin Band two years ago in a small venue where I sat directly in front of Tony, close enough to put my feet on the stage if I'd wanted. An absolutely fantastic night of jamming!
Close second: Flower Kings in the same small club.
Close third: Jean Luc Ponty in the same small club.
Support your local pub!

KeithieW
06-27-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by dinosaur
Support your local pub!

Agree with you there my friend..........

There are some GREAT bands out there playing the pub circuit who will never get a proper recording contract because they're not "trendy".

On the AM playlist is a band called Haze who are friends of mine. They played upwards of 200 gigs a year around the UK and europe for years and made SUPERB Music. They're still playing together but following a nasty road accident just as they were getting somewhere they don't tour as much as they used to.

Keep on checking out the pub circuit and you'll be amazed at what's out there.

Argon
07-02-2003, 07:39 PM
Mine is... Sitting next to Carlos Santana and watching Miles Davis and McCoy Tyner at the Greek in Berkely. I didn't know Carlos personally he just ploped down next to me with his pass around his neck and nudged me and said are these guys great or what (and they were) we talked a little but the music was awsome!

Also Zappa when he came on stage with the Stanford marching band (after they were banned from TV for doing a tibute to the pill on national tv)

There were really so many since I went to concerts every weekend durring the 70 its hard to pick them out.

Rick and Roll
07-02-2003, 09:06 PM
Just saw Flower Kings last night - after seeing them at Nearfest. Just 30 people to see one of the greatest bands ever? After a thousand two days before? The power of the Pub!

Going to see Iluvatar 10 minutes away on Saturday - the only local band ever worth it. This place seats 50 on a cramped night. Seen Echolyn there, and Tunnels. The Power of the Pub!

KeithieW
07-03-2003, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
Just saw Flower Kings last night - after seeing them at Nearfest. Just 30 people to see one of the greatest bands ever? After a thousand two days before? The power of the Pub!

Going to see Iluvatar 10 minutes away on Saturday - the only local band ever worth it. This place seats 50 on a cramped night. Seen Echolyn there, and Tunnels. The Power of the Pub!

Amazing!!!!!

I like to pop down to my local pub at least once a week to see what/who's on.

The drinks not bad either.:D

Rick and Roll
07-03-2003, 06:44 AM
I thought you only drank at work!

KeithieW
07-03-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I thought you only drank at work!

I drink ANYWHERE!!!

Rick and Roll
07-03-2003, 07:04 AM
Good man!

Rick and Roll
07-14-2003, 11:01 AM
I had a girlfriend that drew the Broadsword album cover for me. A good part of that tour was that the keyboards (P. Vetesse) were a main focus, which is not usually the Tull style. I'm not sure if Saga opened up for them on that tour or if it was the Under Wraps tour. A good choice.

I never did get to see Midnight Oil, but I can imagine them being athletic - Mr. Garrett is one big dude. Bands like that that (more of a straightforward sound) are very fun live.

KeithieW
08-28-2003, 04:07 AM
Has anyone seen a gig recently that they would like to tell us about???

I've not been to many gigs lately. The Proms are on at the moment and so most of my concert going has been classical music for the last month or so.

PS. Hey Rick what about those pictures of you with your umbrella??:D

moses
08-28-2003, 08:54 AM
Recently, I saw Fates Warning/Queensryche/Dream Theater, but in my mind it wasn't very memorable except for being rather confused when Portnoy stood up mid song and flipped the audience the bird. I wasn't thrilled.

The one that does stick out in my mind was in December of 2001 when I saw King Crimson. This was at a theater and we had front row seats right by Robert Fripp. The show was incredible and we enjoyed it a lot. I remember at the end, the band was standing on stage acknowledging the applause. After a minute, Fripp shielded his eyes from the bright lights and looked right at us. This was funny because just before he did that we were getting to the point where our applause was starting to wane. We had an awkward moment and started to clap more heartily again.

Maybe it was just a response to the stage lights, but the look on Fripp's face right then was priceless, as if to say, "How dare you not applaud!?"

Rick and Roll
08-29-2003, 08:40 AM
Yeah, I'm burnt out on Dream Theater.

It seems like everyone has Crimson somewhere as a favorire moment. The Discipline & Beat tours were mind-boggling. Bruford walking around the stage on "The Sheltering Sky", and Belew and Bruford on percussion on the opener "Waiting Man".

One time on a tour in the late 90's Fripp actually stood up during a guitar lead. I thought he was having an erection!

Keith - I have that picture but don't have sending capabilities or any computer knowhow. - I'll figure it out somehow (better get my oldest son involved).

davekenz
09-21-2003, 10:06 PM
I must say that my favorite gig was The Flower Kings in Seattle,Wa. last year! I estimate the crowd was about 100 strong. The sound was amazing, It was literally like having headphones on!!
TFK played a show that I will never forget! They are one of the most amazing groups.
-Dave

progdirjim
09-21-2003, 11:38 PM
Here's one that may be a surprise - my brother and I saw Neil Young Friday night - and that was one of the best concerts I've EVER seen. I'd seen him twice before, and enjoyed it, but his current tour in support of the Greendale album is at another level and a must see.

Greendale is a concept album in the truest sense of the word. While the music is about what you'd expect from Neil Young, the stage presentation is incredible. He has dozens of people acting out the story line of the album, with a movie screen/changeable set behind the band. It was the most tightly integrated stage show/storyline that I've seen since Pink Floyd's "The Wall".

While Neil Young's music is far from progressive, I think most progressive rock fans would thoroughly enjoy the current tour. And if you happen to be a fan of Neil's music, don't be afraid to sell your brother's bike to raise enough cash to buy a ticket. If you haven't gotten the message yet, go and see him!

Rick and Roll
09-22-2003, 07:45 AM
Welcome aboard!

Two of the best shows I have seen have been the Flower Kings. The band played two years ago in a bar with about 30 other patrons. It is so hard to imagine a band of that caliber playing to an audience of so little. Six songs, 150 minutes of music.

The other show was at Neafest in June. Seeing Stardust performed was absolutely riveting. I caught them a few days later also. It's good that the band members are having fun, because sometimes Roine needs to lighten up a little.

What a great band!

Rick and Roll
09-22-2003, 07:50 AM
Neil Young was one of everyone's favorites that I grew up with. Peeling away the one-note solos and the some of the corny stuff, he's a great musician and songwriter. He's truly got something for everyone.

I can only imagine what this show is like. I'll keep an ear out for it.

Did your brother sell his bike to go with you?

I actually consider him very progressive. He's not everyone's cup of tea, but he sure does command respect.

Baltimore 24, San Diego 10!

progdirjim
09-22-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll


Baltimore 24, San Diego 10!

ooh! low blow!

the sad thing is, that's the best we've played all year. I'm hoping for 5 wins this season, but I'm not betting on it.

Neil Young - My brother actually paid for my ticket, so no, he didn't steal my bike. I agree that Neil is a much better musician then he is generally given credit for, but I also realize that many prog fans may not be into his music. Even so, I'd still recommend this tour.
Flower Kings - agree completely. NEARfest was the only time I've seen them, but if I ever have another chance, I'll jump on it. I thought they were the highlight of 2003 NEARfest, which is no small accomplishment.

Rick and Roll
09-22-2003, 11:48 AM
As in most cases, see the Kings at a small place!

Unfortunately, the SD coach is the most conservative man on the planet. If any call was made on the first scoring drive other than a QB draw on 3rd down, they would have had 6 and the game would have been much different. We lucked out. And it was a master stroke to go out there 5 days prior (because of the hurricane) - but I hear any excuse to spend time in San Diego is a treat!

progdirjim
09-22-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll
but I hear any excuse to spend time in San Diego is a treat!

no, it's terrible here, and the weather sucks. really.

Actually, San Diego is a great place to live, but I find myself tempted to advertise as above, as it's getting a little overcrowded here. Thought not as many people as my hometown (ooh, another clue to the quiz question!)

davekenz
09-22-2003, 02:09 PM
I did just see Porcupine Tree last month. Those guys are amazing as well! Steven Wilson has the best guitar tone. I was right at the front of the stage for the entire performance. With the exception of the guy behind me trying to start a mosh pit during the first song,it was top notch.
I've seen them twice now and plan to see them every chance I get. I've been a fan since 1996, but they just started coming to the northwest last year.
My other favs would have to be:
- Peter Gabriel - US tour
- Genesis - We can't dance tour (what can I say, it was the last..)
- Yes - Talk tour (at The Gorge ampitheater - last with Trevor)
- K.Crimson - Thrak tour (front row!)
but enough of my yakkin'!!
-Dave

Extended Play
09-22-2003, 03:13 PM
I've been quite busy with concerts lately, as far as prog though, caught Blue Man Group when they rolled through Houston last month. That was an amazing show. Just seeing them do the cover of Baba O'Reilly with Tracey Chapman on the violin was worth the ticket price alone.

Great show, don't miss it (although I just missed the CGT for the third time straight, D'OH!).

It does, however, look like King Crimson will finally be rolling through Texas again with the new tour. when the venture through the SouthWest.

Tommy

Rick and Roll
09-22-2003, 08:36 PM
got "hurricaned out" on Thursday - not sure if they will be back soon.

Yesspaz
09-23-2003, 09:39 AM
Best concert I've ever seen, ever, period, is...

The Complex Rock Tour by Blue Man Group. Dang. Who else saw it? I saw it at Oak Mountain Ampitheater in Birmingham, AL in August. UnBelievable.

Yesspaz
09-23-2003, 09:42 AM
Oh, and I love Neil Young. I've been snapping up the re-releases. As for him being progressive, Um, Well, No, he's not. I love Neil, and I agree he's one of the best live shows in the history of rock (the guy does not know how to give anything less than 110% - You'll never leave a Young show thinking "I was cheated"), but progressive? Please, even by my liberal prog standards I have to vote no on that.

That's not to say I would mind seeing the song "Change Your Mind" from SLEEPS WITH ANGELS added to the station:p

progdirjim
09-23-2003, 12:18 PM
Sleeps with Angels is a great album. But adding "Change Your Mind" - for right now, I'd have to change my mind...

And Yesspaz, just to repeat, the Greendale tour is way BETTER than any other Neil Young concert I've seen - you get the same 110%, plus a stage production that's much bigger than anything he's attempted in the past. I'm still in awe over it...

Yesspaz
09-24-2003, 09:44 AM
Adding "Change Your Mind" was half a joke. One of the best VHS things I have is NY&CH in 1991 on the FREEDOM tour. Dang. GREENDALE is solid. Do you have the one with the DVD? It's a live DVD of the concert!!!

pelle
09-30-2003, 07:53 PM
I saw Yes in 1972-4 (hazy times at best) with Black Sabbath and Grand Funk Railway. Grand Funk had a hit song with "Captain", Black Sabbath had "Iron Man" and Yes were virtually unknown (although "Your Move" was on the radio a bit). Yes blew everyone away. Black Sabbath couldn't even get on stage as the crowd kept encoring Yes. What a night.
I saw ELP at the Olympic Stadium at the height of their pomposity: with a full symphony orchestra, supporting the "Works" album. I can't remember a concert that blew me away as much as that one.

progdirjim
10-01-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Yesspaz
Adding "Change Your Mind" was half a joke. One of the best VHS things I have is NY&CH in 1991 on the FREEDOM tour. Dang. GREENDALE is solid. Do you have the one with the DVD? It's a live DVD of the concert!!!

I have the one with the DVD,and I finally watched it. The DVD is cool, but nothing like the show I saw. The DVD is solo Neil with no band, no set, no actors. Enjoyable, but not at the same level.

Yesspaz
10-02-2003, 10:08 AM
Oh...

Well, tonight is going to RULE! I'm going to see King's X tonight at The Nick here in the Ham, and it'll be sweet. I hope they play "Ono."

The concert doesn't start until 10:30 and there's an opening band, so I'm thinking 3:00am getting home. It's worth it.

KeithieW
10-02-2003, 10:25 AM
Watch out for the leg, man.

Let us know how the gig was when you get a moment, eh?

Enjoy!!!!!

Rick and Roll
10-02-2003, 10:53 AM
The King's X boys will be playing up here on 10/10 - Yesspaz, make sure they put you up front!

To all of you that never have seen them, go go go! They play all of the time, late, etc. - in five years they might be totally fried!

Keith - Dada is here 10/7, and I am already there! I can't wait, man.

There's a show that Nik Turner is doing with his band at a local bar, but it seems like "Spacerock", and I'm not really into that. Also, Project Object (the great Zappa band) and The Mahavishnu Project (also a smoking band) are playing separate shows that night. Decisions, decisions!

KeithieW
10-02-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll

Keith - Dada is here 10/7, and I am already there! I can't wait, man.

There's a show that Nik Turner is doing with his band at a local bar, but it seems like "Spacerock", and I'm not really into that. Also, Project Object (the great Zappa band) and The Mahavishnu Project (also a smoking band) are playing separate shows that night. Decisions, decisions!

Dada???? You jammy bugger!!!! Wanted to see them for years. Their first album "Puzzle" is a MASTERPIECE.

I'd go to the Nik turner gig Rick. It WILL be spacey but I'm sure you'll love it!!!

dinosaur
10-02-2003, 05:52 PM
Dada is here 10/7, and I am already there! I can't wait, man.
Dada was here last week and I missed them!
Let us know how it goes.
I would have loved to hear "Ask the Dust" from American Highway Flower.

Rick and Roll
10-02-2003, 07:00 PM
I only have AHF and Puzzle. I have to just "go with" the other stuff they will play. Absolutely I will let you know. It's at a place with real tables and a real intimate setting.

I just found out that I will miss King's X again. It's about 75 miles away and I couldn't do it. They have skipped Baltimore like the plague.

Has anyone seen Project Object also? They've been great each time I've seen them.

KeithieW
10-03-2003, 02:48 AM
Have you heard the band "Butterfly Jones" seems they were 2/3 of Dada and released an album called 'Napalm Springs'

I've only been able to find 2 Dada albums, 'Puzzle' and 'AHF'. Were there any more?

There was an album called 'Dada' by a band called "The Flow" and Amazon pissed a lot of Dada fans off because the way they listed it looked as if it was a Dada album called The Flow and quite a few were sold.

You have been warned!

Rick and Roll
10-03-2003, 07:33 AM
Don't worry, I don't buy anything much anymore anyway.

After a small struggle, I found the website - dadatheband.com - it appears there are two more studio records before their hiatus and another to be released soon. Butterfly Jones is on there I think, and definitely on the Joie Calio web page.

I guess Amazon.com is like an Amazonian woman. You can get what you need, but you better be very careful!!!

Yesspaz
10-03-2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll

I just found out that I will miss King's X again. It's about 75 miles away and I couldn't do it. They have skipped Baltimore like the plague.


Don't do it Rick. You HAVE to go! This show ruled.

Rick and Roll
10-03-2003, 10:10 AM
details!!!!!!!!!

I am a junkie for any and all info King's X!

Yesspaz
10-03-2003, 11:15 AM
Welcome to the Groove Machine!

Saw King's X last night at The Nick in Birmingham, AL. What a show. Here's the set, with notes, for anyone who cares:


Groove Machine (TAPE HEAD)
Believe (MANIC MOONLIGHT)
Dogman (DOGMAN)
Complain (DOGMAN)
Black Flag (KING'S X 4)
Black Like Sunday (BLACK LIKE SUNDAY)
Finished (BLACK LIKE SUNDAY)
Johnny (BLACK LIKE SUNDAY)
Summerland (GRETCHEN GOES TO NEBRASKA)
Looking for Love (EAR CANDY)
Pretend (DOGMAN)
Screamer (BLACK LIKE SUNDAY)
Climb Up the Ladder (new)
Black the Sky (DOGMAN)
(Happy Birthday to some guy named Josh)
Walter Bela Farkas (TAPE HEAD)
Cigarettes (DOGMAN)
It's Love (FAITH HOPE LOVE)
Static (MANIC MOONLIGHT)
Sometime (EAR CANDY)
We Were Born to be Loved (FAITH HOPE LOVE)

Encore:
Over My Head (GRETCHEN GOES TO NEBRASKA)
Moanjam (FAITH HOPE LOVE)


Dogman - 5
BLS - 4
FHL - 3
EC - 2
MM - 2
GGtN - 2
TH - 2 (if you count WBF)
KX4 - 1
new - 1


I, due to my leg, was able to get a chair and sit right at the stage. The Nick is a small little club, so I was right there. I got one of Doug's bass picks that he dropped. I got high-fives from Doug during a section where he wasn't playing. We made eye contact numerous times and he smiled at me a lot (slightly weird since he's gay and I'm straight) 'cause I was so into the show (KX is a sing-along band, so we were all jamming with every song). We grasped hands one time like we were arm-wrestling and shook each other during a Ty solo. I shook hands with Ty and Jerry too. Ty said at one point, "Ya'll are neighbors to my home state, Mississippi." I yelled out, "I'm from Brandon!" (Brandon is the next-door-neighbor to Ty's hometown, Pearl). He said, "Hey my parents live in Brandon!" That was fun. Ok, so you know now just how close I was to the stage. Wow. I almost got Doug-sweat on me. Thankfully, No....

They started at 11:30 and played till 1:35. The show started with a bad mix. Too much bass and they played Groove Machine and Believe too slow (nice popping and slapping on Believe). So cool to start a show with a song that has a drum solo. Once they hit Dogman, it was all good. They decided to play Complain and Doug had the lyrics taped to the floor because he couldn't remember them, but it was too dark for him to read it, so he kind of mumbled and laughed through most of the song. The crowd loved it. Then they hit Black Flag, a good sing-a-long. They introduced their new album and did three songs from it. Black Like Sunday ruled, especially that part where they don't sing the word "down" but instead just bend the E to the Dropped D - "He always brings me *BBOOOWWWW*" Sweet.

Isn't it weird how songs that you think, "why would they pick this to play live" sometimes turn out to be some of the best concert pieces? This was the case with Finished. I'd not have picked it from BLACK LIKE SUNDAY to play, but it ruled. Next, they played Johnny. Holy Crap. They did the full 11 minute version, but they probably got in 10 minutes. SOOOOO good. Ty's solo went for about 5 minutes, and was killer, and what a bass line! Summerland was moved from the first song of the encore (I could see the setlist) to here because some girl was begging them to play it early 'cause she had to leave. Whatever. Great song. Next was Looking for Love. Good stuff. Then they did another song from the new album, Screamer. This song kick maximum glute live. I finally figured out how Doug gets that big bend in his bass tone on this song. He reaced up and pressed down on the Dropped C# on the headstock, between the nut and the key. This song was so good. The crown was singing along quite loudly with the - DOW DOW DO-DOW "no" DOW DOW DO-DOW "NO" DOW DOW DO-DOW "AAAAAYYYYEEEEE!!!!"

Next they played a new song (I think he said, Climb Up the Ladder). It is as progressive as anything they've ever done. Very fast, very heavy, very showy, very good. It bodes well for the next album. Then, one of the the highligts of the show, Black the Sky. If any of you know this song, you will understand that's it's one of the few times I just had to stand up. The whole crowd just went nuts on the Dropped C riff with the gutteral yell, fist-pumping, "HUH!" Gracious, what a show.

Then some chick handed Doug a napkin with "Please sing Happy Birthday to Josh, he's 23 today" written on it (told you I was close). So they did a really fast Happy Birthday.

Now, all this time, since at least Dogman, people were yelling songs they wanted to hear. See, KX hadn't been to the Steel City in 8 years, and they knew we wanted to hear certain songs. Doug said it was the first night of the tour and they were loose and he and Ty were commenting on songs we yelled. We were giving good crowd feedback, so they were laughing and Ty said, "You guys are yelling for 'Flies and Blue Skies' and 'Lies in the Sand' - I don't even remember how to play those." Doug laughed when someone yelled for "The Difference." Ok, so by the time they were goofing off doing Happy Birthday, Doug joked, "We've got ten albums, how can we play it all?" Some guy yelled, "We've got all night!" Doug laughed and said, "I don't! You really want us to play all the songs?" And the guy said "We like them all." Doug: "YOU like them all, but what about everyone else? Hey, do you guys like all King's X songs?" We went nuts. So, Ty goes, "Ok, how about Walter Bela Farkas?" So they started playing it and we laughed and laughed. Doug was doing Wally's screaming parts. It was horrible. Then Doug and Ty told a story about when they recorded that. It was in Boston and they're were a lot of Berkley people there, who were "watching our fingers and counting time and s*~^ like that, so we did WBF on the spur and one guy yelled, 'you're ruining the show!' So we played it like, two more minutes." It was fun times.

Ok, so then they played Cigarettes. Need I comment? Well, I will. The crowd was all over the song, singing along. KX took it easily to 8 or 9 minutes. Ty's second solo used an e-bow. His gain was so high that he had the e-bow on and was just pulling and hammering the whole solo. Perfect technique. Then Doug pulled out the 12 string bass for It's Love. Static didn't work so well live as I thought it would. It really is a studio song. But it was fun and they jammed it out for about 10 minutes. They'll probably drop it from the set. Next up was Sometime (the Ear Candy one, not the Out of the Silent Planet one). This funky number was a great jam. Next on the set list was Visions, but they skipped it without saying why...

Then, the highlight of the show, without question. They played We Were Born to be Loved, and they played it note-perfect. During the long stop-start ending, Doug and Ty came up and stood on these two huge speakers that were laying on their sides in front of the stage, so they were literally in the crowd, but higher. They were having a blast. One of the best Prog-rock songs of all time right there. AMAZING. As they were leaving the stage, we all started chanting "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry." Drummers never get that much respect because they sit in the back, so I think this made him feel appreciated and he was grinning and being bashful. He's such a good drummer, eh Jim?

Then they took the encore with Over My Head. Well, folks, before they even started playing, the crowd was singing the chorus over and over. So instead of counting in, the band kind of joined in at the chorus and then kicked in the whole song. When they got to the bridge (where the piano comes in), they stopped playing and we sang the chorus 3X (Doug came out onto the speaker again [he did this often] and lead us in the singing with no mic).

"Music, music, I hear music.
Music, Music, I hear music.
Music, Oh, oh, oh Lord...
Music over my head."

We did it three times a capella, and at the end of it, Doug got in front of the mic just in time to scream, "Just like yesterday!" and BaM! Back into it. Then, of course, they killed Moanjam, with Doug and Ty out on the speaker for the whole part after the vox were over. They easily made this 6 minute song 8. Ty's guitar playing is immaculate. He's flawless in his technique.


The only downside of the concert was that there were so many other songs they should've played!!! I'd have loved to hear "The Big Picture," "Prisoner" (Ty doesn't like to do these live because they both have three guitar parts, and there's only one of him), "Goldilox" (this is their "Shiny Happy People" - the song everyone wants to hear that they refuse to play because they hate it - Whenever they do play it, the don't sing - They let the crowd sing because everyone knows every word), "A Box," "Mr. Wilson," "Fade," "Dreams," and my personal favorite, "Ono." Also, they didn't play anything from PLEASE COME HOME, MR. BULBOUS. I'd have liked "Smudge" and "Fish Bowl Man" from that one. But I dare not complain. I've waited years to see King's X. I will definitely see them again. The band really seemed to have a blast and Doug said he had so much fun that he promised they'd be back on each tour because he liked the Steel City.




En Finale, if you have a chance at all of seeing this band live, GO! Dang! One of the four best concerts of my life - the others being Iona, Stavesacre, and Blue Man Group.


Long live the King!

KeithieW
10-03-2003, 11:25 AM
What a great review. Made me think I was at the show.

Really glad you enjoyed it.

Now Rick you HAVE to go. :D

Rick and Roll
10-03-2003, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the comments - it brings back all of the memories. the only thing from the list I haven't seen live is the new stuff. One time they did GFR's "Closer To Home" - now there's a song!

It's interesting to poll fans of King's X and see what their favorite songs are, cause a lot of them are different.

When I saw them last year their stretched-out song du jour was "Vegetable". 17 minutes of mostly Ty and Jerry back and forth. I was exhausted. I actually sat through the horrible three bands before them, and as usual, King's X just blistered through the set.

I've been out of action so long, I forgot about the "new" record. I need to get that.

I saw them twice in 1992 (both with the underrated Galactic Cowboys), once each in 1994 & 1996, and once last year.

For comparison, here's some old set lists - note how they change as the newer material is added:

2002 - Out Of the Silent Planet (I am not kidding!), It's Love, Talk To You, We We Born..., Big Picture, Lost In Germany, Dogman, Cigarettes, Sometime, Groove Machine, Higher Than God, She's Gone Away, Marshmellow Field, Believe, Manic, Vegetable, Static.

1996 - a lot of Tape Head & Ear Candy, The Grand Funk tune, and the old favorites, including Mr. Wilson.

1994 (in order) - Human Behavior, Complain, Pillow, We Were Born, Black the Sky, Cigarettes, Black Flag, Goldilox, Pretend, Over My Head, Fool You, Dogman, It's Love, Moanjam, Shoes, Far Far Away, and King (Yeah yeah yeah yeah.......)!

1992 (in order) - The World Around Me, Shot of Love (what a song!), germany, Big Picture, It's Love, We Are Finding Who We Are (another favorite) (played them in reverse order from the record!), Fall On Me (even another favorite), Summerland, Prisoner, Mr. Wilson, Wonder, We Wer Born, Far Far Away, Black Flag (on my roaches), Goldilox, Over My Head, Moanjam, Mission (yes, it's true), and Not Just For The Dead.

And here's a set list from 7/17/91 from Ohio, from the best man in my wedding (7/20/91)! (I of course did not see this)

:(

Mission intro, King, Fine Art Of Friendship, Talk To You, Power of Love, Shot of Love, Summerland, Fall On Me, We Are Finding..., Goldilox, It's Love, I'll Never Get Tired Of You, We Were Born, Visions, Over My Head, Moanjam, Mission, I'll Never Be The Same, The Burning Down

Keith - at least I have the other shows' memories. I really don't think the show next week is feasible. Family considerstions....

Yesspaz
10-03-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Rick and Roll

I've been out of action so long, I forgot about the "new" record. I need to get that.

Yes You Do!



Out Of the Silent Planet
The Big Picture
Higher Than God
Marsh Mellow Field
Vegetable
The Grand Funk tune
Pillow
Goldilox
Shoes
The World Around Me
We Are Finding Who We Are
Prisoner
Mr. Wilson
Wonder
Not Just For The Dead
I'll Never Get Tired Of You
I'll Never Be The Same
The Burning Down

WOW! These are all songs you said you'd seen 'em play that I'd love to have seen them play. And Look, that's a whole other set list! I still crave Smudge, Ono, Fade, Cupid, When You're Scared, etc. Dang it! Why can't they just play like, 7 hours?



Shot of Love (what a song!)
uhg, possibly the worst KX song, besides Far, Far Away...



I really don't think the show next week is feasible. Family considerstions....

Oh, you have to try... the new stuff is sooooo good.

Rick and Roll
10-03-2003, 01:59 PM
I didn't write down the 1996 songs - they also did Train, What I'm Gonna Do, Fathers, A Box, 67, Mississipi Moon, Little Bit of Soul, Happy, and Hate You.

Like I said, everyone has their favorites - Shot of Love was done a cappela on the verses! I'll give you Far Far Away......

Rick and Roll
10-07-2003, 01:18 PM
Just picked up "Black Like Sunday" by King's X. One of my favorite bands. The first six CD's are awesome, the next two are good, and the last two (Manic and Bulbous) have slipped markedly. Boys, a suggestion - don't rush and put out so many CD's of mediocre quality. Those two put together MIGHT make one good CD.

To say I am disappointed by Black Like Sunday does not do the word disappointment justice. "Finished", "Bad Luck", "BLS", and "Two" are OK. "Screamer" and "Johnny" are excellent. "Dreams" is saved only by its guitar solo. That's half the songs.

The other half suck. "Rockpile", "Save Us", "Down" are bad, "Danger Zone", "Working Man", and "Won't Turn Back" are especially galling, and the winner for the crappy ass song of the year award goes to: "You're The Only One"!


At least they're still unparalled live. Why why why why why do bands have to do this???? Damnit! Such a great band!!!

I know Yesspaz loves King's X, so how do you and any other KX fans judge this CD?

You can dress up a turd all you want, but it's still going to smell like one!

Yesspaz
10-07-2003, 06:15 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

WOW

You know I love this band, so you know I had to defend the album. So here goes:

Screamer, Johnny, and Dreams rule. Black Like Sunday sounds like it was left off DOGMAN, so it rules. I didn't like Finished that much until I say it live, now it too rules. Yes, I'll agree that this is their most uneven album because it is old songs from different eras of the band re-worked. Also, it also their poppiest album, even more so than EAR CANDY.

Rock Pile, You're the Only One, and Danger Zone are good songs too. I really like Rock Pile.

The only songs that I tend to skip are Working Man, Down, and Save Us.

But ALL the earmarks of KX are here: kicking riffs (the opening of Rock Pile), perfect three-part harmony (Rock Pile, Dreams, etc.), and massive grooves (Screamer).

While I wouldn't call BLACK LIKE SUNDAY King's X's best album (by far), it's is still KX. That doesn't mean that I think they can do no wrong. I'm just saying that sub-par King's X is still better than almost anything else out there. I think Dreams, Screamer, and Johnny would do well on a station like AM.

But, to give credit where credit is due, Rick, you nailed the ones they did live. Notice the four they picked to promote the album were, in order, Black Like Sunday, Finished, Johnny, and Screamer (should have played Dreams too).

Well, I too am interested in hearing what others think of this album. However, if you're not into KX already, don't get this album first. Get FAITH HOPE LOVE or GRETCHEN GOES TO NEBRASKA or PLEASE COME HOME, MR. BULBOUS, or if you like really heavy stuff, DOGMAN.


PS. BULBOUS rules. I wouldn't say they "slipped" until MANIC MOONLIGHT, and even at that it's a 50/50 affair at first, but the more I listened to it, the more I look at it as a solid effort. The only albums that I don't consider solid all the way through are BLACK LIKE SUNDAY, EAR CANDY, and the first one, OUT OF THE SILENT PLANET.

Rick and Roll
10-07-2003, 11:26 PM
Glossing over the 4th studio (self-titled) is a mistake. That's solid.

I can't see the fascination with Bulbous. It's almost as weak as BLS, and certainly worse than Manic.

Subpar KX is subpar music, plain and simple. It's just a shame that new ears will have to hear the recent crap and may never be blessed with hearing their other stuff. That's a damn shame. But as Kansas, Genesis, Marillion, and many others have proven, it sure is hard to keep it going.

KX can't riff and maintain their studio sound like they used to, or like they can live. Maybe that's why I like "Screamer" and the reggae of "Johnny" so much. It's different.

Remember - all the garbage from here on out will NEVER soil the early stuff. I'm just telling it like it is.

PS - just got back from dada, will give you all a review later sometime.

KeithieW
10-28-2004, 03:16 AM
This thread has been in the wilderness for over a year now and with so many new Moonies out there and so many gigs attended I wonder if the thoughts are still the same.

I still stand by my posts in this thread but have to add a couple more.

1) The Groundhogs at 100 Club in February was the first time I had met another Moonie (our beloved progdirjim) and even though the sound wasn't 100% it was still a great gig for that reason.

2) Yes at Braintree for the same reason but this time JamForte, VAXman and Rogor Mortis.

3) Nik turner's Space Ritual Band at the 100 club. A real regression to the trippy hippy days of early 70s Hawkwind.

4) A recent Moodies gig at the Royal Albert Hall. No orchestra this time but a terrific band performance.

Any more you want to relate?

dinosaur
10-28-2004, 11:31 AM
Saw the "Lamb" production last week. Good, but I liked the "Selling England" better. Maybe because I like the earlier material better?
If you haven't seen the Musical Box, don't be put off by the 'cover band' label that might be your first thought. These guys have the Genesis sound down!

Back to topic,

Favorite show so far: Tony Levin Band a few years ago.
A few close seconds:
Jean-Luc Ponty (c. 2003?)
Kopecky (c. 2001? Daryl Steurmer joined in for an awesome metal guitar set.) Hey Rickter, you might consider Kopecky for your next metal show.

Looking forward to my first show with fellow moonies. I'm trying to arrange a trip to NEARfest 2005...

Speaking of moonies, I attended a talk by Alan Bean yesterday (fourth human to walk on the moon). Very interesting and inspirational guy -- as well as a good artist. (alanbeangallery.com)

lotus
10-28-2004, 05:45 PM
Having read through many of the replies to this thread, which KW resurected (therefore I discovered it) some of the best gigs I remember back in the 70's

Companhia Eletrica Dharma, a catalan group. Every gig I saw of them (about 8 in 3 years) was a party.

Tangerine Dream in 74, 75 and 76. The sound was so magnificent, that it allways was a highlight to go there. In 76 they had a big laser show with them, which, for me, was more disturbing than entertaining.

Jethro Tull in (I think 75). Ian Anderson was superb

Emerson Lake and Palmer (also 75). Unfortunatelly the warming up group was based on Stanley Clark. He stole the show from ELP

Mahavishnu Orchestra in 74. Very good in the first half, then boring, because it was always the same.

Biggest disappointment was Procul Harum. Maybe because the guys had to begin 3 hours late because the trucks were were stuck in costums that time (74 as far as I remember), but I left after one hour. It was bad.

Pink Floyd The Wall in Dortmund. What a show. Perfectly made and giving chicken skin mostly all over the time.

Best gig ever was PFM in 74. (They recorded that a couple of month later (Live in USA). I have never seen and never saw later people on stage having so much fun, enjoing themselves and making such an excellent music. Djivas on bass, Mussida Guitar and Pagani on flute and violin.... I think I will remember and enjoy the feeling I had all my live

As you all know, a couple of weeks ago I was with RM at Flower Kings more than 20 years after my last gig. I enjoyed it so much, that I decided to begin with this again, envolving also son and daughter of Lotus. To watch and hear live performing of music gives you so much energy that also this younger generation has to be conducted to this and not to plastic, playbacked, casted boy groups or Teenie girls.

Next Tuesday I am going with all family (including Mrs Lotus, who will have a terrible time) to The Tangent. Me and son of Lotus for sure will enjoy. Daughter of Lotus maybe (I hope so)....

:)

Rick and Roll
10-28-2004, 06:27 PM
that's probably the best post I've ever read.....I guess there is a second chance.

I wish I was a bit older...I missed all the great 70's bands in their prime.

KeithieW
10-29-2004, 02:51 AM
A great post indeed.

Really glad you rediscovered the joys of gigging.

Your comments on the PFM gig reminded me how much I enjoyed them too. I saw them a couple of times. Once at the Rainbow just as "Photos of Ghosts" came out and on the "Chocolate Kings" tour at the Royal Albert Hall. I too, remember the fact that they all seemed to be having a great time playing their music to the adoring masses. Thanks for the reminder.

I hope Mrs lotus enjoys at least some of the Tangent concert. I'm sure the mini lotuses will.

I'm going to see The Tangent this coming Saturday with RM, mossy and son of mossy so I'll try and get a review done before you go.

Bob Lentil
10-29-2004, 11:57 AM
My favorite gig was seeing King's X for the first time in June of 2002. I think I owned two of their albums at the time and was mildly interested in seeing them perform live. I was absolutely blown away. They were touring with Tapping the Vein at (who put on a pretty good performance), and I remember thinking to myself at the time that King's X made them look like complete amateurs. I was also thoroughly impressed by their accessibility and friendliness to the fans. I had seen King Crimson a few months before this show, and there was quite a contrast between Robert Fripp hiding in the shadows out of sight, and these guys acting like everybody was an old friend. Since then I have only missed one King's X show in the Cleveland/Pittsburgh area and obtained all of their albums.

My 2nd favorite gig was seeing Rush for the first time on the Vapor Trails tour. I discovered Rush in during there break after Test for Echo, and they quickly became my favorite band. It was a real treat having the opportunity to see them live after not being certain if the band was going to be able to continue, and it made me all the more appreciative. I'd probably rank this performance roughly equal with the show above, but King's X gets the edge for playing in such an intimate venue.

fremder99
11-11-2004, 11:10 AM
Boy, I'll date myself with some of these!

- King Crimson here in 73 or 74. The opener was Captain Beyond. Both bands roared! KC was touring the Larks album, and Jamie Muir had recently left, so Bruford was surrounded by 3 walls of things to bang on behind him. But in the first song, he blew a bass drum head... So, they replaced his dbl bass kit with Capt. Beyond's stripped-down kit... sigh... I thought it would limit Bruford... silly me! One drunk kkept shouting "ROCK AND ROLL!!!" And Fripp finally approached a mike and reported that "Invariably, in any large gathering of people, there is one twit."

- Tull, about '72, on the Living in the Past tour, with Gentle Giant opening.... Every member of the Giant played a dozen instruments, it seemed! They were great, but a quieter band than the live albums that came later!! And then, Anderson strolls on stage picking the opening of the Brick, and played it, in its entirety, with 20 minutes of stage play material between the two "sides". They ran a "radio show" reporting news stories from the album cover, including an interview with a large rabbit! After the closing of the Brick, the band got over 10 minutes of standing O! And Ian Anderson coyly steps to the microphone and says: "For our.. SECOND number..." several more minutes of standing O followed!

- Yes, on the Relayer tour, with Gryphon opening. Just to hear Close to the Edge live was enough to go home happy. They played all of Relayer, and a side of Tales. Great stuff! My first of many Yes gigs!

RogorMortis
11-11-2004, 11:32 AM
Living in Denmark meant that my live experiences in the seventies can be written on the back of a stamp. I haven't had the chance to see the great bands of the era - Genesis, Gentle Giant, Greenslade ect. They simply never came. Genesis did play the Lamb in Copenhagen but as a poor school boy I had no money for such outings.

The best experience was without doubt going to Reading in 1975 - my first real gigs as such with the ulimate goal of seeing Yes. And saw them I did og heard them more - Too many people meant I had a bad angle plus getting a load of beer cans thrown at you. But half way through the set God was in a good mood and went to the toilet pulling the chain opening the heavens - this meant I went to the front cause I didn't care if I got wet and muddy. There I could se everything including an impromtu song from Jon. The best I remember was The Gate of Delerium. Reading meant also I saw Caravan, Supertramp and Wishbone Ash among othes, oh and Robin Trower. Didn't get much sleep or food but who cares with that music. I've never been to a festival again since even though they are plentiful here, but never with prog bands.

But since becoming a Moonie my musical experiences have increased with the advent of meeting some of you other people. That has made it all worth while (even though it gets rather expensive) So I fear I will soon have to go to USA, a country I expected never to visit, but I've have to meet some of you good people.

RogorMortis
11-11-2004, 11:33 AM
Oh I forgot to mention. In 1974 I did get to see Fruupp who played at our school. That was a good experience too with some really good technical playing inspite of them being stoned.

Rick and Roll
11-11-2004, 11:47 AM
you're going to love my show this week, then. My lament (intentional Crimson pun) is that I am just a little too young to see those shows. I didn't get started until 1979....they must have been incredible!

rogor...

Trower...ah yes. A nice one there.

Why would you go to reading when you already know how?

KeithieW
10-02-2005, 06:02 AM
C'mon New Moonies. Get posting and let us know of any great gigs you've been to.

RogorMortis
10-02-2005, 03:59 PM
I hate this thread


All you lucky sods who had the possibilty of seeing all the greats


I do envy you during the years.


But here in the wilderness...not much to see


Damn

teermin8r
10-02-2005, 06:14 PM
I am only gonna hit some of the highlights, but among the top is I got to see The Who with Keith Moon in '75 on the Who by Numbers tour. It was awesome. I have seen The Who 4 times and another time was the 25th anniversary of the Quadrophenia album in St. Louis. They played the whole album (my fav album of all time) plus 5 songs after it was over. A great show.

I have seen JTull twice, but the best was his solo Rubbing Elbows Tour a couple of years ago in a small theater with great acoustics. If you ever get to see Ian in one of these settings, GO! he does interviews and Q&A in between songs.

I was at the first Texas Jam circa 1978. Started at 9am and ended at 2am. I can't remember everybody that played, but here's what I can rememeber, other than it was extremely HOT. Van Halen, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Walter Egan, Heart, Mahogany Rush, Eddie Money, Journey, Head East and others. Looks like they are getting to release a movie about this also. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460957/

Also the Marillion concert I went with Vaxman and Mrs. Vaxman and Nadina in San Francisco of this year Sept 11th, 2005. A night I will never forget.

The Supertramp concert in Norman, OK circa 1978 or 79.

And the first time I saw Ozzy with Randy Rhoads. The Diary of a Madman tour. I went to my night class and they were giving a test and I didn't know they were. We could drop the lowest grade, so I left the class, wrote a hot check and drove 90 MPH 45 minute drive to go to that concert.

I'm sure I'll think of others later, but these are the cream of the crop.

tobyGnome
10-13-2005, 09:38 AM
I hate this thread


All you lucky sods who had the possibilty of seeing all the greats


I do envy you during the years.

Hey Rogor I have often felt the same way, but I have managed to see some great gigs in my time. Some for just the music, and some for being with friends and creating memories, and some for both.

Yes - Beziers,France, 1984. I was on holiday with 3 friends in the south of France in Perpignan, and whilst there saw a poster for Yes playing in about 4 days time in Beziers so we moved to a hotel thereand managed to get tickets and were in for a great gig. It was in an old amphitheatre and it was a beautiful, sunny evening. The sunset, thousands of people throwing paper aeroplanes, the view.....and that was before the band came on. It was the 90125 line-up with Trevor Rabin and the band were excellent. The laser show on the French skyline only added to the music and we all left with very big grins.:dogpile:

Ozric Tentacles - various UK festivals 1986/87 If there was one thing you could pretty much be sure of at that time.... ozrics would turn up and play - often for hours, or all night, in a little tent with a generator. Improvisation was always the name of the game and when they were on form they were unbelievable and unmissable.

Cardiacs - Sheffield, UK (1988) Cardiacs were intense. A mixture of prog, punk, psychedelia and theatre they were / are almost uncategorisable (is that a word?). Some of their material could easily slip into the moon - some would certainly cause some moonies to choke on their cornflakes! If anyone feels like checking them out http://www.cardiacs.com/ - you may never be the same again.

NDR Symphony Orchestra - conductor Gunter Wand - Edinburgh 2001
Over about 3 years this orchestra and conductor would come and play Bruckner at the Edinburgh festival. The conductor was a frail old man who had to be physically helped onto the podium. Bruckner's music stands out from other "romantic" composers in the way that he uses big blocks of sound and builds up magnificent musical architectures - often intense, often very beautiful. Hearing this music conducted by a man who virtually lived and breathed Bruckner's music was a profound experience. After a few minutes from the start this frail old man seemed transformed, animated as if he was plugged in to some higher force. Awesome.

Caravan- Old Buckenham School, Norfolk, 1991

In 1990/1991 I lived in a tiny village in the Norfolk countryside where there was a shop and a pub about 1 mile away. One day after walking to the shop I noticed a small poster in the window advertising Caravan playing at the local school! At this time I was unaware that Caravan were playing together as they had not had any of the later, more publicised reunions. Could it be true they were going to play in the middle of nowhere? On the night of the gig I couldn't believe it was true - apparently they band knew the headmaster of the school or something and he had persuaded them to come and play. The original line up of Caravan - playing nearly the whole of In the Land Of Grey and Pink, with a real explosion at the end of Nine Feet Underground as well...unbelievable. It was kind of surreal because it was in a school and the school kids had stalls selling orange juice and biscuits - not the usual rock gig environment! The whole thing was fantastic.

Yesspaz
10-13-2005, 10:10 AM
Caravan- Old Buckenham School, Norfolk, 1991

The original line up of Caravan - playing nearly the whole of In the Land Of Grey and Pink, with a real explosion at the end of Nine Feet Underground as well...unbelievable. It was kind of surreal because it was in a school and the school kids had stalls selling orange juice and biscuits - not the usual rock gig environment! The whole thing was fantastic.Ok, now that's just stinking cool.

Rick and Roll
10-13-2005, 10:12 AM
Toby, those are really neat....the best shows are often marked by the atmosphere..as in the Yes...and especially a chance occurence like the Caravan!

The Cardiac thing is very interesting..I must check it out sometime.

I've seen Ozrics a lot but never in that setting. They were almost like a house band over there for years, huh? And Joie was my favorite of the keyboard players, I only saw him once. He can play, all the rest since just make noises and that gets old (although Ed compensates!).