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byzantium
06-17-2003, 08:37 PM
Got inspired for a new thread by the music I've listened to today: Citizen Cain and The Watch, so here goes...

What are the best (or worst) clone bands?

Any King Crimson clones? (Anekdoten? No, not since Vemod, and certainly not the new Gravity) Yes? (that would be hard)

Hmmm....

Folks, what do you think?

ivan_2068
06-17-2003, 11:20 PM
I believe the most succesful clone band is Triumvirat, they started playing like ELP specially in Mediterranean Tales, but then developed their own style in Illusions on a Double Dimple and Spartacus.

Some people like Triumvirat more than ELP, IMO both bands are in the same level until Spartacus, and like Ilusions and Spartacus as much as any great ELP album.

Ivn

black max
06-21-2003, 11:46 AM
Starcastle was a nice combo of Yes and Kansas/midwest prog.

byzantium
06-21-2003, 03:26 PM
I for one don't like ELP at all, but if I'm in the mood for that kind of prog I rather listen to Pr Lindh Project, Mundus Incompertus.

Superior to ELP in my opinon.

black max
06-23-2003, 08:07 AM
Byz, if you haven't given the live "Welcome Back My Friends" a good listen, try it sometime. I find that one disc (okay, three disc set) far superior to anything else in ELP's catalog. I don't know what they were doing in the studio, but they gave up much of the power and precision of their live efforts to play silly effects games in the mixing booth. For example, I find the studio version of "Tarkus" almost unlistenable, but the live version is one of my favorite pieces of music. (And I was glad they released a live version of "Pictures at an Exhibition.)

I do like their first album, though...less foolishness with the effects.

ivan_2068
06-23-2003, 12:27 PM
Black Max said:
Byz, if you haven't given the live "Welcome Back My Friends" a good listen, try it sometime. I find that one disc (okay, three disc set) far superior to anything else in ELP's catalog.

I agree with you about "Welcome Back my Friends ..." being a great album, but I believe "Trilogy" and "Brain Salad Surgery" are far superior.

ELP was a band that reached their peak too fast, and then started to release mediocre or bad albums, specially after Works I which was a good album except for the cheesy ballads in the Lake side.

After this album, you could expect anything like Works II or the worst piece of crap released by any prog' band "Love Beach".

Ivn

Rick and Roll
06-23-2003, 09:52 PM
It sure didn't take long to go from clone bands to trashing ELP.

They're not my favorite, but they're damn good.

Tarkus is just awesome. Remeber this is 1972, not 2002. There's some OK stuff on Works - agreed, not their greatest. And come on, we all know Love Beach is a piece of crap!

The very first instrumental portion of Spock's Beard's "The Light" is lifted right off of Tarkus. There's a Cairo tune that sounds just like it too. Trilogy is indeed great. ELP released their records quickly, as was the norm in the 70's - not one every 2 years like now. That's why it seems quick.

I've seen Par Lindh a few times - his stuff is a little too over the top for me, and lacks passion.

How about the Marillion part in Grendel that rips off Supper's Ready? Great band, BAD move.

I saw Anekdoten do Starless in 1995 - a thunderous version. However, they are NOT KC clones.

There's a lot of snippets of songs that "imitate" others. but clone bands I try to avoid.

ivan_2068
06-24-2003, 12:51 AM
Hey Rick, don't misunderstand me, I'm not trashing ELP at all, as a matter of fact it's one of my favourite bands.

All their stuff until Works I (except the Lake's side) is incredible, Their debut album is awesome, Tarkus is complex but amazing, Pictures is a masterpiece, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery are IMO in the top 10 prog' albums of history, and almost all their live albums are great.

I had the luck to see them twice, the first one in 1977 and the second time in 1995 and they still had the quality. Sadly none of their later releases has the level they achieved between 1970 and 1973.

Ivn

PS: I'm changing my avatar again as a tribute to ELP :D

Rick and Roll
06-24-2003, 08:05 AM
I was still a sheltered teen. I wish I would have seen these bands back when they were great.

byzantium
06-24-2003, 08:19 AM
Pr Lindh Project: Yes it is over the top, but there are no embarrassing pieces like 'Benny the Bouncer'. Thinking about it, ELP were over the top too, and many of the songs and arrangements haven't aged with dignity.

At the same time there is something with 'neo-'styles that lacks a quality which the music had when it was new, not reinvented or 'reborn'.

Rick and Roll
06-24-2003, 09:16 AM
Benny the Bouncer is just a ditty - nothing more. Inclusion as a song doesn't mean a thing. If anything, it's where it'placed on the album that's embarassing.

Are you ready eddy could be embarassing.

However, I think The Sherriff is a cool tune.

I had a little trouble with my comprehension of your second paragraph. If I understand correctly, you are saying that the later bands lack something the older bands did. I try not to judge newer bands by that standard - it is unfair to the newer band. For that reason, I gave Par Lindh a chance - it's just not my cup of tea, that's all. His band has a nice following, so that's cool.

byzantium
06-24-2003, 05:04 PM
Yes, the retro-prog-bands seem to avoid the pitfalls and actually doing some things better in a way (like Pr Lindh, *I* think), but at the same time they are not as interesting.

Prog-rock in the 70s was inspired by jazz, experimental and classical music, retro-prog-rock is inspired by 70s-prog-rock. Something is lost in the latter process.

And I'm not very impressed by neo-prog either, so I tend to stick to the 'original prog-rock' made in the 70s.

ivan_2068
06-24-2003, 07:12 PM
Thinking about it, ELP were over the top too, and many of the songs and arrangements haven't aged with dignity.
Agree Byzantium, but I rather listen the old arrangements than the ones I heard in that crime called re-works, it's re-worst.

And I'm not very impressed by neo-prog either, so I tend to stick to the original prog-rock' made in the 70s.
Now I agree 100%, Neo Prog' has never impressed me either, I find neo-prog' bands as 70's wannabees, but with less complexity and talent.

Ivn