To Dream or not to Dream?

[Avian]

One of the more controversial subjects at Aural Moon is our decision not to add Dream Theater to the station (and bands that sound like them).

I figured I would create a thread where Dream Theater fans could post their arguments, what songs we should be listening to, why you love them, and what other bands like them you're mad at us for not adding. :D

A one stop place for this subject.

Avian

[Yesspaz]

I've just always viewed DT as one of the bigger (success-wise) prog bands of the '90s, and it just seems odd to me they are not on here.

As far as similar bands go, I've always lauded King's X. KX has many different side projects, including...

Platypus (Ty Tabor, guitar, of King's X, John Myung, bass of Dream Theater, Rod Morgenstein: Drums, of Dixie Dregs, Derek Sherinian: Keyboards, of Dream Theater)

Playtpus is not on AM, but I think should be, as should KX. Now, KX is not prog in the vein of Yes or KC or Rush, but it is miles and miles beyond radio (ever heard them on the radio?). Their music is very intricate at times, very emotional, with dense and difficult progressions and transitions. Their influences are Rush, the Beatles, and Zep or Black Sabbath (meaning they are one of the five best riff-writing bands ever IMO). They have no keyboards. Just great three piece hard prog rock. They have tight three part harmonies, and are all unbelievalbe musicians. They made VH1's Top 100 hard rock artists countdown at 87, higher then KC and Yes (both of which barely fit the category anyway). GREAT BAND! They've guested for Pearl Jam, Dream Theater twice, and Galactic Cowboys, among others.

Find a copy of FAITH, HOPE, LOVE or DOGMAN somewhereand let it grow on you (as most of this kind of music has to do). Songs like "We Were Born to be Loved," "Pillow," and, well shoot, all of them. They stick with you. They are my favorite band for the past two months. I'll shut up now.

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=king%27s+x

[Yesspaz]

I'm still a computer moron, so I'm gonna try this...

[Jazs]

Maybe I haven’t been listening to the right CD's, but I have not really enjoyed what I have heard by Dream Theater. I'm with Avian on this one, but I am open to persuasion :).

_Jazs

[progdirjim]

Well, I received a copy of Platypus "Ice Cycles", and I have to say, that while I like it, most of it doesn't strike me as prog. I've decided on three tracks (including a 9 minute suite) to upload to the station, which you should see in the next couple of days(unless Avian vetoes me on this one):-)

[Genesis74]

I really don't like Dream Theater at all, so I could care less. It sort of strikes me odd, however, to see Dream Theater excluded but Liquid Tension Experiment playing considering 2 of their 4 members are from Dream Theater(!)

[Avian]

Good point. I was thinking about this today (but not that hard).

I would say without a doubt that the DT side projects are a lot better than DT itself. Plus, we didn't add every song from LTE or BLS either - just the ones that we thought would fit the station.


Avain

[Yesspaz]

Man, I listened to King's X's selftitled album again today. Wow. It kicked my butt.

[Naminanu]

I would rather not have Dream Theater listed. If their songs are similar to groups like LTE or Lana Lane, then I'd skip it. I prefer the more ballad-like songs rather than something hard. In fact that is why I started listening to this station. I'd rather keep it that way.

[P.L.U.T.O.music]

I hope u guys take Drem Theater and their side projects into your program, 'cause they are just one of the greatest Progbands on the planet. Ok, they are a bit heavier than the rest, but the quality is high, if not even higher.
You feature Spock's Beard so why not DT, both bands had a tour together, that was a blast.

[Lost Dreams]

I like Aural Moon the way it is. Leave Dream Theater to stations like Progged or Progrock. Those are the ProgMetal stations. Aural Moon plays the prog that doesn't make my brain hurt when I just want something to listen to in the background while working around the house. :)

[Avian]

Hey, it's our new slogan...

"Aural Moon: Saving Brains since 1998!"

Avian

[P.L.U.T.O.music]

Just the other day you guys played AYREON.
Now I can't understand why you don't want to feature DREAM THEATER.
In my opinion both are playing in the same league, in terms of heavynes.

[progdirjim]

(Well, the program director isn't crazy about all of Ayreon either.) But what we're really saying about DT is not that they're not good, but that they're not really prog. And Avian and I feel pretty strongly about it. The best way to convince us would be to point us to songs that we can listen to (for free) that are the most prog...

[Corbulo]

I'll have to post my mp3 of Dream Theater w/Steve Howe Live Yes Medley.
Well, maybe not.
Then again....

Anyway, speaking of DT sides.
Chromakey?

[Avian]

We actually run that piece - You can find it under Howe, Steve - Yes Medley

Quite Nice! No one is saying they're bad musicians...

Avian

[BigTwin]

DT is a little too rambunctious for my taste...I bought a DT cd at a discount music store at an outlet mall in Branson, MO, a few weeks ago. I think it's called Awakening? Maybe I picked up the wrong one, but it was just a little too busy for me...Genesis' Seven Stones is a representative example of the way my taste runs. I like unique melody structures...but they also need to actually be "melodic". I'm usually a sucker for a good "Mellotron-dominant" cut. BTW....they're making Mellotrons again!....in Canada!

[ButtGoodAndQuik]

OK. Let's break this down. First, let's define prog. If you look at the variety of bands available here, you will see a definate variety of progressive styles, from the early prog masters to recent stuff like Ozric Tentacles and Djam Karet. Aural Moon keeps a very open mind and does their research well. So, what is prog? I think it varies depending on the person and their introduction to the genre. Myself, I love epic songs, a wide variety of changing and dynamic metrics, incredible instumentation, occasional vocals, a wide variey of instruments (especially mellotron); basically music that sets itself apart from everything else and can only be classified as prog. Now, I have listened to DT and think the Scenes from a Memory CD sucks big time, but I am completely and utterly blown away by the Metropolis 2000 DVD. Granted, it isn't for the faint hearted, but I consider this to be one of the most incredible technical displays of musicianship. Whether to include it here? Prog is sometimes experimentation, so why not try a few cuts from the Metropolis 2000 CD and see what happens. Just a couple, though. Because of their popularity, I wouldn't want to see this site become progressive metal. Oh, you think DT is to busy? How about some of the Mahavishnu stuff, or, even more incredible, Boud Deun? That stuff makes me want to quit playing bass and run home to mommy!

[BigTwin]

Each person is an individual, and as such, each will have his or her own "hot-button" as far as melody, lyrics, etc. For example, I like Porcupine Tree's "Sky moves Sideways, but there's only one cut on "Lightbulb Sun" that does anything for me. I own two Deep Purple albums, the first one (self titled, wasn't released in the US till after "Shades") and "Shades of Deep Purple". The only other thing they did that partially hit my "hot-button" was an instrumental cut called "A-200" (?) from the album "Burn". You can keep all the Zeppelin past the first album, Robert Plant solo stuff except "Big Log" and anything Genesis recorded after "Duke". I'm not writing this to piss anybody off...maybe just to embellish what BG&Q was saying. And BTW, yes Mahavishnu is as busy as DT...but McLaughlin and the boys hit my melody "hot-button" and DT doesn't (or hasn't so far). But on the other hand, you can't build the perfect radio station either, Jim and Avian, because you can't please all of the people all of the time....Aural Moon is, hands down, the best streamer I've heard....just let it flow!

[dinosaur]

Stick to your plan, AM. I like DT and other prog/metal bands very much, but they do not belong in the same category with pre'75 Genesis (I'm listening to Foxtrot right now) or any Yes' stuff, or even KBB (who pack lots of notes in, too).
I turn to AM when I want to expand my mind.
I turn to DT, Tool and Metallica (great w/ the San Fran Symphony BTW!) when I want bang my skull on the wall. (DT, if you're reading this, you can take it as a compliment.)

[Powerslave]

I know alot of folks will be mad at me for saying this, but Dream Theater probably doesn't belong on the Aural Moon list. At least, their whole discography doesn't. Now while I enjoy DT's music, most of the music on AM is of a lighter vein of rock music. If this were a regular rock station that played REM, Matchbox 20, that sort of stuff, to hear something like Metallica or even Def Leppard would seem out-of-place. Even if the nature of Progressive music is to explore new ideas and types, there are other places to explore progressive metal. That what Progged Radio is for (check out progradio.net) Gotta face facts, that's what DT is: prog metal. Just as I wouldn't expect to hear Shadow Gallery or Royal Hunt or Stratovarius on AM, I would not expect to hear DT, either. While I like all the aforementioned prog metal bands, I just don't think they fit in with the current AM playlist.

There are some DT songs that might be okay for AM ("Another Day"), but then again, there are lots of bands with a song or two that could be considered progressive, I still wouldn't expect them to be here. I think DT is better suited to the stations that currently play them on the web, but not Aural Moon.


New rant:
While this may turn out for a good pro-DT argument, I still felt like bringing it up. I love Peter Gabriel. I listen to all his albums regularly and I am quite pissed off he hasn't released a new album for the past eight or so years. But even as I am a PG fan, does he really belong on Aural Moon? Sure he may have been in one of the greatest prog-rock bands ever, but does that make his solo music progressive? I personally don't think so, but I was wondering what everyone else thought about having PG, Enya, etc.-type music on AM.


Powerslave
(yes, I know, Iron Maiden doesn't belong here either, hehe)

[BigTwin]

OK....I finally heard some LTE. MUCH better than DT...Now I'll shut-up and play my computer :D

[Corbulo]

Went out and bought LTE2 last night.
I'm currently on a buisiness trip and and only have me laptop to play CDs with.
But even with these crummy little speakers, LTE kicks some serious somethingoranother.
And now I know why their sound is a bit DT like.

Corbulo

[Earl Grey]

Heard King's X a couple of months ago: VERY Beatley, and maybe they liked Utopia's (Todd Rundgren's) vocals as well: pretty speedy, and noisy at first, but they do grow on you...
The friend who played them for me, usually HATES progressive, so will be horrified to hear that his band is in this thread!!!lol.

[splats]

After going back and forth on this one, I think there are certain DT songs that do fit the overall scheme of Aural Moon. The question shouldn't be "are they too heavy to be prog rock?" since I've noticed an awful lot of heavy stuff on the lists already.

A few DT tracks would be nice if for no other reason than it adds a bit of variety. Someone was asking for specific songs to try, so here's a few of my favs to get you started:

"Learning To Live" - from Images and Words
"The Mirror/Lie" - from Awake (definitely not for AM, though)
"Space-Dye Vest" - from Awake
"A Change Of Seasons" - from A Change of Seasons EP
"Peruvian Skies" - from Falling into Infinity (does get real heavy at the end)
"Trial Of Tears" - from Falling into Infinity
"Finally Free" - from Scenes from a Memory

A few other suggestions that I thought might be worth a listen:

"The Ytse Jam" - from When Dream and Day Unite
"Another Day" - from Images and Words
"Surrounded" - from Images and Words
"Wait For Sleep" - from Images and Words
"Lifting Shadows Off A Dream" - from Awake
"Hollow Years" - from Falling into Infinity
"Take Away My Pain" - from Falling into Infinity
"Beyond This Life" - from Scenes from a Memory
"One Last Time" - from Scenes from a Memory

I'll live whether or not DT is added - there's plenty of bands I haven't heard before on AM already - but I do see the merits of adding one or two songs for the people who haven't heard DT before (and the ones who can't go on without 'em.) ;)

[Yesspaz]

What KX songs did you hear, or what album? In my main cd folder, I have seven artists: Yes, Pink Floyd, King's X, Rush, Oldfiled, Gentle Giant, and King Crimson.

[Earl Grey]

I'll have to talk with my buddy, who plays the King's X CD all the time, then I'll let you know.
It was funny: He always bitches about my propensity to listen to PROG. then he plays this CD! I LMFAO, & said, "Well well well (In the tones of 'Alex': Clockwork Orange). What do we have here, my merry Droogs? A bit of PROG has creeped into the Headbanger's Ball, I fear! Tsk Tsk!"
You had to be there, but it was a 'Larf!'
Great (Indispensible) stuff You've got in your folder there!
Now hold on tight, and continue, my friend!
Soon The Light, Earl.

[Yesspaz]

I hear you Mr. Grey (are you related to Gandalf the Grey?).
I LOVE King's X. I don't care what anyone says...!



-"and while we're thanking everybody in the world I'd like to thank a guy I know named Earl."

-Mike T. Nelson
-Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie

[Earl Grey]

Give me 20 years: If I don't change my hair-style (& why should I? I Haven't yet!) I'll look just like him! I'll keep my eyes open for the Balrog on the bridge (Yipes!).

[progdirjim]

Fly, you fools!

[DodgerMatt]

Let me apologize before anyoine jumps on me. I've been in other forums where people object to newbies dredging up old threads, but I'm picking my way tyhrough some of the early topics and this one caught my eye.

I wasn't aware there was a formal ban on DT. And someone here has already mentioned that Liquid Tension is already represented here. (What's the difference?)

I might have to second Dinosaur's sentiment. I have DT and Tool in my very personal library (meaning the kids don't even see I have them let alone listen to them). Occasionally, when I get the urge to strangle someone at work, for example, I will play one of these. Not the stuff I want on the computer while I'm writing or when the kids are around. (They think the straight up prog is odd enough.)

OTOH, I would say the DT instrumentals are awesome and probably okay for AM. In particular, I'm thinking of Hell's Kitchen and Erotomania.

[zvinki]

You're a brave man to bring this up again. :)

I also have Tool and DT CD's and have them in my CD changer in the car where my kids and I can listen to them at the intended volume. It is music that makes my heart go faster, not always a good thing at my age.

For me, personally, I am OK with it not being on AM's list since AM offers non-metal prog. and suits my work atmosphere just fine since that's when I listen to it. But then every once in a while we will hear OSI or LTE and I just crank it up!!

[Rick and Roll]

I've said this ad nauseum, here we go again....I just read the posts (thinking at first they were new, dopey me). Let's set the record straight:

3 of the 4 members are LTE are from DT, not 2.

It's absolutely silly to have bands like LTE, OSI, later Crimson, the list is endless..without DT.

What's the issue, that someone will request it to death? Already you get the same songs played every day. Variety! I wish there was an unlimited source to draw from - there's so much out there not on AM.

More OZRIC!

Lana Lane????

Non-prog songs/acts litter this station. Kansas, Tull, Queen, Rush - they just happen to be the bands we grew up with - not prog!

I'd love to hear King's X, XTC, Montrose on here - but it ain't gonna happen, and I agree with the reasons. My adoration of King's X will not diminish cause it's not on AM.

Now while I am saying I think DT belongs on AM, it wouldn't bother me in the LEAST if it wasn't. I like the Smithereens, the Cult, Maiden, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Chicago, hell, I got more bands not on AM than here. They don't need to be on here.

Finally, I think we're looking at this too narrowly. I love to hear music from other countries. There may be a need to head DT in other places.

I'm still confused - do we think that the inclusion of one band will de-legitimize the station or open the floodgates? I doubt it.

[Extended Play]

Wow, quite an old thread, and I doubt any opinions of Jim and Avian have changed, but here's my suggested list of DT songs for the station (that I last mentioned back in september). I'll make them available and let you know where to get them from. That is, if you still even care. Enough.

Eve
Space Dye Vest
Erotomania
Learning To Live
The Dance of Eternity
Strange Deja Vu
Ytsejam
Metropolis Pt. 1
A Change of Seasons

Tommy

[progdirjim]

Originally posted by DodgerMatt
I wasn't aware there was a formal ban on DT. And someone here has already mentioned that Liquid Tension is already represented here. (What's the difference?)


What's the diference between LTE and DT? C'mon, you can't hear a difference on ONE listen? We've had dozens (and I'm exaggerating DOWNWARD) of requets for DT, so I listen to them fairly regularly. With dozens to hundreds of listens, I just haven't heard as much progressive music from DT as I've heard in the first five minutes of listening to LTE. There's no BAN on DT - we just don't feel they're progressive enough. I will follow up with EP on his suggestions - we're very willing to add what WE feel are the truly progressive tracks from them.

[Extended Play]

Blah, this really is getting old . . . .

Jim now has access to my list of tracks, and Avian soon after. I just want to get a final freaking decision on this.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Extended Play
final freaking decision

Another good name for a band!

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Extended Play
Blah, this really is getting old . . . .

Yep, this is round four by my count.:o

[Extended Play]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Yep, this is round four by my count.:o

At least, it is the final round and not just a prelude to the next.

[Yesspaz]

hopefully, until some newbie brings it back up without reading the old threads