Song length quota?
 

As an Aural Moon newbie I realize this may have been discussed before, or I may even be moving into a danger zone by raising this....

I've just requested a wonderfull Tranastlantic song....a very very long song. It took me a long wait and just a few very long songs before it came on. Some of them seemed interesting, some of them seemed very boring and never ending. And then I thought: wait a minute? What if someone finds my 29:40 minute song boring?

I do apreciate that some of the best songs in the genre are 20+ minutes long, however, it can be very tedious if three songs in a row are of the long kind, especially if they are not your cup of tea. While often thought, long songs are not necesarily represantative of what the genre has to offer.

At Aural Moon I have discovered an artist quota: good! I have discovered a personal quota: also good! But wouldn't it give variety, other music and other people a better chance if there would be some sort of personal song length quota?

Suggested personal quota:
1 out of 4 songs 10-15
1 out of 8 songs 15-20
1 out of 12 songs 20+

Go ahead, hate me for my suggestion :LOL:

And yeah, I am realy realy enjoying listening to 'All of the Above' by Transatlantic, it's on now :)

Re: Song length quota?
 

Please, feel free to provide me with the PHP and mySQL access code for this feature and I will install it. ;)

Seriously, I've implemented a bit of code in the past few months that makes it easier to track requests and requesters. I know who is abusing the privilege and who is not. I've also added a way to tag each request with the requester's name. This appears to have put a damper on some of the over-requesting. Many long time moonies are well aware of some of the request abuse issues that have plagued the moon in the past.

For now, I can manually pull requested tracks if they appear to be tracks that have been requested time and time again by the same requester. I do not (or have not) pulled a track that has been requested many times but by different requesters. Be mindful though that if I find a cabal conspiring to over-request a track that track will get pulled. :rulez:

However, all that now said, I do not see a more restrictive request policy in the near future for 2 reasons:

1. I don't have the time to code up such restrictions and there are some other web page improvements I have started but have not yet completed. I will devote my efforts to completing those before I attack any new bit of code to enforce request policy.
   
2. Most of the request policy is enforced by SAM. Unless the folks at Spacial Audio provide a more robust schema for song requests, requesting is likely to retain status quo ante.

Re: Song length quota?
 

Fair enough. I am actually pretty good at SQL. Don't know about PHP tho.
Ah well. Don't get me wrong. I think this station is realy realy good and varied and seems to be a fair democratic process anyway.

Oh and about over requesting a song. I completely agree. I don't like hearing the same song over and over again myself. Even if it's a favorit!

Re: Song length quota?
 

omg robust! One of those terms that has been hijacked by corporations to use in their ridiculous commercials!

However, schema makes up for it! :vaxman:

Re: Song length quota?
 

To limit song length requests is not in the spirit of the Moon. Most people on this site have self control, therefore, why change the system. Yes, even I have been guilty of requesting the same song more than once. At least I wait some time before doing so. As our numbers increase on this site these things will happen.The system works now. I think Vax already has enough to take care of. Let's give him a break.

Re: Song length quota?
 

What about calculating the inverse Laplace's tranform of the requested quotat ? Or a non linear 5th degree smooth curve of quotat versus Moonies hematocrytis blood :hand: :hand: concentration:knowing: no thanks

Re: Song length quota?
 

The Laplace Transform (the engineer/mathematician in me gets to shine) is a way to model functions in the time domain into the frequency domain. The inverse Laplace would be frequency domain function modeled into the time domain.

Any quota would be a constant which in the frequency domain would map into the time domain as the dirac delta -- a function which has infinite magnitude and zero duration. I'm not sure how I would apply this to request policy. It would seem to me that the policy should permit an infinite number of song requests as long as the song was 0 seconds duration. The corollary to this would be that any song of length greater than 0 seconds could not be requested. We implement the corollary on Wednesday! ;)

On the 5th degree curve... a Bezier curve (a cubic) is far easier to compute. Quartic and higher order splines are very difficult to compute even if hermetian polynomial expansions are truncated after a few terms. I think it would be much simpler for me to just yank a request if I hear it too often. :D

Re: Song length quota?
 

lol VAX
what about a song made of a real and an imaginary part ?

Re: Song length quota?
 

That would make it a complex song. Much of the moon library is comprised of complex songs.

Re: Song length quota?
 

real and imaginary - good theme too

Re: Song length quota?
 

The problem for some of us moonies - I guess I should only really speak for myself - is that we have trouble discerning which is the real part and which is the imaginary. And many times they are one in the same (or would that be one in the saNe?) :flutter: :knowing:

Re: Song length quota?
 

Oh boy....

Re: Song length quota?
 

I have always hated the terms real and imaginary when dealing with complex numbers. Both components are perfectly valid, realizable quantities!

:D I was tutoring algebra to Martha's cousin on Sunday. Her cousin has gone back to school to complete her undergraduate college degree. y=mx+b completely dumfounded her.

Re: Song length quota?
 

well done VAX:-V

Re: Song length quota?
 

I can not believe that the listeners of Aural moon are complaining about song lengths, If you want short songs go to IO 80's where no song is over 5:00 minutes. One of the reasons I come to the moon is not only for the great progressive they play, but also for the fact that the moon does not cut or shorten songs to make more room for more music, A classic example of that would be Manfred Manns 'Blinded by the Light' which on almost every radio station is cut in half, is that what the moon should start doing...I hope not. We are all fans of the music here and to chop them or somehow change it would not only be bad for the listeners, but it would also be a disservice to the artist that wrote it.

In my humble opinion anyway...

Re: Song length quota?
 

Well. Some seem to ignore a few statements I made in my original post by neglecting them and drawing their own conclusions regarding my intentions. Such as considerering my comment a complaint rather than a suggestion. Or concluding that I don't like long songs. Or assuming that I want long songs cut in half. Or thinking that I want to inflict a lot of work on the admins. And some use the opportunity to do some bullshitting when someone is trying to be serious! Now is that good or bad? :headscrat

Great to be treated like that as a newbie! :ick:

I feared beforehand (as at least some of you may have read) that this would lead to nothing! So why continue this discussion?

And why worry. At times when the queue gets a bit too long-winded to my liking I still have my own collection to play from :)

And now the ultimate punnishment for all this...I am staying tuned to Aural Moon. I'm actually enjoying this station, the new music I am introduced to, the possibilty to request songs and introduce new stuff to others is special. And I enjoy the nice comments in the shout window. Seriously think you're doing a great job here. :-V

Re: Song length quota?
 

Well said Spewie... I also agree with an earlier post that asserted that listeners are self policing (or something to that effect). I don't often see (hear) 20+ minute songs requested sequentially. I say keep the status quo...unless the wind is out of the north at 8 MPH in the requester's location at the time the request is placed, and the barometer is falling at a rate of 1 millibar each 17 minutes, then the requested song length should not exceed 4 minutes 40 seconds. But, there is no way for VaxMan to code that, and it would require more self policing and some expensive meteorological equipment.

Re: Song length quota?
 

J-B:
I understood your intentions...and that you were clearly not complaining. Others have voiced a similar opinion at times, I think mainly because the request queue can become several hours long. I very seldom hear any of my own requests because I can't often listen for long periods. (Please understand I am not complaining! I still somtimes request because I think that, first, I'd like to hear a particular song, and second, I think others would like to hear it.) I suspect many on AM are like me, that is, of two minds on this point. We all like the long (Laplace-domain) format, but we also like variety and shorter time constants in the request response.

Re: Song length quota?
 

I like the long songs and the short songs...For myself i try and pick stuff i would think the people online may like and i like :).But lately i have been making it a point to pick a bit shorter songs not that i don't like the long ones i just want to get to the next song:thumbsup:.And Sometimes i don't even request at all.So after this sort of long drawn out post i have to say IM neutral:rawk:

Re: Song length quota?
 

I knew you weren't complaining, JB, and I thought your post was well-thought-out and well-written.

welcome to the Moon!!

I also got a major guffaw out of Vax's erudite post. ;¬ )

pie are not squared, they're round.

Re: Song length quota?
 

Actually I secretly had to laugh about Vax's mathematic posts. :)

Re: Song length quota?
 

WHAT! You found my scholarly mathematical dissertation to be humorous?

I glad you understood and enjoyed the intended humor.

Re: Song length quota?
 

No one's treating you J-B with any personal intent either way. You've asked a question and people are giving you opinions.

Please let us have our right to bullshit :rofl: After all, it's in the Constitution, wrtten on the back.

I've been staying out of the discussion because I would think it impossible to program and enforce song lengths. Bottom line is, the checks and balances here with regard to overrequesting is excellent.

Welcome J-B...keep posting.

Re: Song length quota?
 

Well, nothing is impossible in software but how would/should I enforce it? Should I give everyone, say, 1 hour of request time. If they request Greg Howard's Water On The Moon their limit for the day is exhausted; whereas, they could request 20 3-minute songs if they choose wisely.


It has been working better since I enforced placing user IDs on every request. There are those who still request the same song multiple times. In some cases it is because they missed the track when it played, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. If, however, it is a song that is rather lengthy and I know this song has been played often enough that everybody has neard it at least once in their lifetime, I may opt to dismiss the request -- especially if the queue length is not short.

Re: Song length quota?
 

Size doesn't matter! So I've heard.:jawdrop:

Re: Song length quota?
 

Well, sometimes it's a waste of time if you don't do the right things with the amount you've been given. :yougo Or so I've heard. O_o

Re: Song length quota?
 

First of all I would like to apologize to JB and say that I had no intention of offending a new listener. I like the request policy here at the moon and the fact that the music comes first here. So please accept my humble opinion without taking any offense.

Thank you,
Spewie :hooboy:

Re: Song length quota?
 

I know this thing called Math

1+1=3

Re: Song length quota?
 

That's correct! 11₍₂₎ = 3

There are 10 type of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Song length quota?
 

Yep!

Also 1+1=0 with a remainder of 1.

Re: Song length quota?
 

1 ⊕ 1 = 0

Re: Song length quota?
 

You know just 10 type of people? I know at least 9 type of people, thats a lot more!

Re: Song length quota?
 

J-B:
Welcome to the moon...the only place where discussions of musical tastes and playlist protocol always, yes always, morph into the Laplace-domain, complex pole positions, and abstract algebra, or worse (okay, dammit, I'll be the first in this thread), King's X, GYBE, and Dream Theater!
But seriously, welcome! And enjoy!

Re: Song length quota?
 

Big guns coming out now and this is for all the marbles Can you spell Kat?:headscrat

Re: Song length quota?
 

Well my Zero to your power of ten = nothing at all.

VAXman, the Moon's greatest lover of Mathrock!!! :D

Re: Song length quota?
 

Thanks for handing that. Where's Dream Theater and Kings X? :D

Re: Song length quota?
 

King's X? Will be heard on my show in a few weeks.

Being new, J-B, you've not been exposed to the tiresome knocking of King's X. It's mentioned by Dinosaur because it seemed for a time that every thread went into a reference to King's X. Kind of amusing actually - most of the time there would be no mention of them, and then someone would say "let's not let this thread morph into a discussion of....... :grinz:

Nice Tull reference Keithie. Adding to the "Sunday lunch confusion"8-)

Re: Song length quota?
 

I'm busy that week!

Re: Song length quota?
 

I wasn't going to be but I've now booked myself in for a Brazilian Wax....much less painful :neener:

Re: Song length quota?
 

There are two kinds of people: those that can do math and those that can't.



Anyway, I've always thought that the delay between requests could be related to the length of the song. For example:

song less than 10:00 = 1 hour delay between requests
song between 10:01 and 20:00 = 2 hour delay
song 20:01 and over = 3 hour delay

Here, there's no "quota." No one's stopping anyone from requesting any length song. Want to request "Tubular Bells, Part One?" Go for it. Just know it'll be three hours till you can request again.

NOTE: the one hour delay till it goes in the queue stays the same, just the delay until you can request again changes.


If this is a good idea (I vote for it), great. I don't know how much programming that would take. I know nothing about it. Anyway, that's my two cents.