Moonatic Discussion

[Mako]

Heya all,

Long time listener and exceptionally rare poster here.

I have a couple of general topic ideas/comments/critiques to toss out there and see if they resonate with the rest of the Moonatics out there...

Programmed Shows:
I enjoy the wide variety of tunes played on the various shows (Progressive Shores, Gagliarchives et. al) but I gotta ask the producers of these shows to please consider less gum flappin' and more music playing.

Rambling on for 3 minutes about a 5 minute tune and why it's significant or important or (fill in the blank) is largely a waste of time. If the tune is so good, it will speak to the listeners for itself. This is streaming radio, not Intro to Prog Musicology 101, so please spare us the rambling monologs and let the music carry the day.

Right, so next we move on to:

Promo's:
Is anyone else out there totally burned out on the Gnosis and Progressive Shores ads with the the turnip-stuck-in-his-throat audio compression set to "11" guy?

Please, please create new promos that aren't so jarring, hyper compressed and played so repetively over and over and... I feel like Sysphus here - doomed to listen to these audio boulders for all eternity.

Promo's should be informative without destroying the mood and given a 30-45 day fuze before they are replaced. Keeping the same promo's for over a year is driving us mad, and not in a good way :-)

Finally a technical question:
I use Winamp to listen to the 'moon when ever I can, but sometimes I'm doomed to using Media Player. MP doesn't show the name of the currently playing tune, at least on the machines I'm using. Anyone have a tip on how to smack MP upside the head to pursuade it to showing the song titles?

Thanks!
Mako

[Rick and Roll]

Tom's show (Gagliarchives) is a bit of a different animal. He is independent, and does a 4 hour show each week. It's not always about songs, and he has interviews and sponsors.

For my show, I try to keep the music between 171 and 173 minutes. My intros collectively run 5-7 minutes. Please let me know if that's in an acceptable range.

As for the promos, I discontinued mine mostly because Jim leans towards not needing any promos. Given that, it's too much of a hassle. I do continue to create and play a 30-45 second promo played 10 times a week for the current show. Every time I upload it though, it gets on the request list. So a few days after I fix it.

Each show on the Moon is handled differently. I am always open to suggestions, so specifically about my show, just let me know.

As for the player, I prefer MP even though it shows nothing. The ease of use for me is better. If I want to know what's playing, I go to a set list or the now playing window. I can tell you I always post my list and it appears there. Then again I'm not playing Bulgarian stuff so my tunes are more known.

Hope that helps.

[kirk]

hi mako~
i have to agree re: the gnosis spot.

[sharcnorris]

The regularity of the promos seems right to me. Sparse but informative. We can't know what's what unless they tell us. The Beauty of Prog. is its creativity. MAKO IS RIGHT! Some of the currant ones are stale. Fresh, less jarring, new would be nice, with variety- rick's responce shows the beauty of the Moon

[Mako]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
Tom's show (Gagliarchives) is a bit of a different animal. He is independent, and does a 4 hour show each week. It's not always about songs, and he has interviews and sponsors.

Heya Rick,

Thanks popping in on the thread, nice to hear from you!

For my show, I try to keep the music between 171 and 173 minutes. My intros collectively run 5-7 minutes. Please let me know if that's in an acceptable range.

What finally pushed me over the edge into Sniveland was Thursday's Progressive Shores. Sean has a righteous and most appreciated taste in world music, coupled to an overly loquacious love affair with the mic.

Constantly popping in between each track for an extended monolog describing the nuances of the track, the band's family tree and where it fits in to the prog scene is, with the deepest of respect, boring and annoying in a pedantic sort of way.

I feel like I'm in music class with an instructor, not listening to righteous new and interesting prog. All DJ's must keep in mind that most of us are listening for entertainment, not edjumication here. Sure, slide some nifty tid-bits, show dates and fun trivia in there, but please spare the audience the lectures.

Frank Zappa has a (lousy) album titled Shut up 'n play yer guitar. That's sound advice from FZ that should be ignored at your own peril ;-)

As for the promos, I discontinued mine mostly because Jim leans towards not needing any promos. Given that, it's too much of a hassle. I do continue to create and play a 30-45 second promo played 10 times a week for the current show. Every time I upload it though, it gets on the request list. So a few days after I fix it.

Thanks for dropping the promos (the faux military-esque one in particular did not work well at all). The current set of promo's, save the Gnosis Guy ones, sound good, work well and accomplish their goal with out yelling, screaming or annoying the listeners.

Each show on the Moon is handled differently. I am always open to suggestions, so specifically about my show, just let me know.

I'm all good with it, save suggesting that keeping the old AM radio formula of 3 consecutive tunes in mind (where that makes sense) is not a bad idea.

A bit of a lead in/lead out to a 3 tune set is cool, no worries there, but if I need to a laptop to take notes about what you're talking about inbetween each tune or set, well...[/quote]

As for the player, I prefer MP even though it shows nothing. The ease of use for me is better. If I want to know what's playing, I go to a set list or the now playing window. I can tell you I always post my list and it appears there. Then again I'm not playing Bulgarian stuff so my tunes are more known.

Yeah, the set list is handy, and I appreciate you all posting it for when I'm relegated to using MP.

I'll often have a yellow sticky with band names and tunes nearby - when something new strikes my fancy, I scribble that down until I hit some critical mass and then go researching/shopping. WinAmp makes that easyt do - glance 'n scribble, while MP makes that annoying by forcing me to pop open a browser &ct..

Hope that helps.

Sure did, thank you!

CYa!
Mako

[Mako]

Originally posted by kirk
hi mako~
i have to agree re: the gnosis spot.

Thanks for the backup on that point - it's something seriously harsh on the old earballs ain't it? Like washing your face with Ajax harsh

CYa!
Mako

[Mako]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
The regularity of the promos seems right to me. Sparse but informative. We can't know what's what unless they tell us. The Beauty of Prog. is its creativity. MAKO IS RIGHT! Some of the currant ones are stale. Fresh, less jarring, new would be nice, with variety- rick's responce shows the beauty of the Moon

I'm cool with the ideas of the promos, we do need them in moderation, just don't yell, scream or otherwise force me to reach for the volume knob to mute your promo since it's so jarringly evile...

CYa!
Mako

[RogorMortis]

Mako

There are a lot of Moonactics who will agree with you about the Gnosis promos - they are driving us up the wall. My wife is complaining about the footprints around the ceiling so something should be done. One sounds more like a porn movie sound track than an appreciaition toward prog and has been overplayed and most os are aware of the merits of Progressive Shores so continuing that promo is unnecessary. No new ones have appeared for ages - I listen a lot to Gnosis as its fun.

PS I don't listen that much to Gagliarchives as I can't understand all what Tom says anyway - but it is a real radio show.

[Mako]

Thanks for the backup on the promo's Rogor, much appreciated. hopefully the Gnosis guys will catch this thread and make new ones that don't peel the ears off our heads :-)

CYa!
Mako

[Cozy]

Excellent. Just when I thought my Monday would be boring, I get to read such a great thread!!!

First off...

...I respect the fact that the promos are old. And I respect the fact that they aren't for everyone. But I did the ones for Gnosis and for Progressive Shores (and Interzone), and the parties involved were very satisfied. First and foremost that is what matters to me. But yes, they are old and I will talk to those involved about changing them.

So that no one will be offended, I will do the next batch of promos as vanilla and monotone as humanly possible, and without such gratuitous compression. You'll be happy to know that I had the turnip surgically removed, but it's left a big scar and I occasionally create an involuntary gurgling sound.


Personally, I'm going to have fun with any/every promo I make and every show I produce. I prefer to approach it with a sense of humor but also be informative. I'm sure I speak for most of the other radio personalities here as well (at least Gags, Prog Shores, and Gnosis). And you know....if the style doesn't suit your critical taste, you can always turn it off. I for one am very thankful for the individual approach of each of the DJs and wouldn't want to see any of them compromise their style.

Re: Sean's mic time... Sean McFee is just about one of the most articulate, most knowledgable music fans I know. He's also done a great deal over the years to support the progressive rock community including co-producing festivals and co-running a record label. If he comes off as snooty, lecturing, or "in love with his own voice", I can tell you that's merely your perception. I know him very well, and know he's not that way.

Re: talking in general.... For every person that (as was so eloquently stated) wants the DJs to "shut up and play yer guitar", there are at least 5-10 others that appreciate the DJ's perspective on the music and the information they convey. After all, a monkey can merely program tracks into the system, but how much of a show is that??? On the avg, my entire talking portions run about 15 minutes during a 3-hour show.

Lastly, while all the radio personalities certainly appreciate the need for criticism (personally, I ask for it at the end of every one of my shows), I know it would be taken more seriously from those who don't exclusively focus on what is *wrong* with something.

- Cozy

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Cozy
Re: Sean's mic time... Sean McFee is just about one of the most articulate, most knowledgable music fans I know. He's also done a great deal over the years to support the progressive rock community including co-producing festivals and co-running a record label. If he comes off as snooty, lecturing, or "in love with his own voice", I can tell you that's merely your perception. I know him very well, and know he's not that way.

Re: talking in general.... For every person that (as was so eloquently stated) wants the DJs to "shut up and play yer guitar", there are at least 5-10 others that appreciate the DJ's perspective on the music and the information they convey. After all, a monkey can merely program tracks into the system, but how much of a show is that??? On the avg, my entire talking portions run about 15 minutes during a 3-hour show.

Right on brother. That's one of the things wrongs with commercial radio, not enough talk, as in there is NO personality driving the music (nevermind the obvious problem with commercial radio). Wolfman Jack, Sam Sneed - can you name one influential music driving personality on radio today? Nope.

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally posted by Mako
Heya all,
Programmed Shows:
I enjoy the wide variety of tunes played on the various shows (Progressive Shores, Gagliarchives et. al) but I gotta ask the producers of these shows to please consider less gum flappin' and more music playing.

Rambling on for 3 minutes about a 5 minute tune and why it's significant or important or (fill in the blank) is largely a waste of time. If the tune is so good, it will speak to the listeners for itself. This is streaming radio, not Intro to Prog Musicology 101, so please spare us the rambling monologs and let the music carry the day.

Given the fact that shows are only a smallish percentage of Aural Moon's airtime, and that the talking done on those shows is a small percentage of their airtime, I don't see any need for drastic change. (The Gagliarchives is completely outside my control.) As far as Progressive Shores goes, I rarely meet anyone who introduces me to good music I haven't heard before - Sean seems to come up with several every week. I think Sean is very knowledgeable and provides some good background on the music he plays.

Promo's:
Is anyone else out there totally burned out on the Gnosis and Progressive Shores ads with the the turnip-stuck-in-his-throat audio compression set to "11" guy?

Please, please create new promos that aren't so jarring, hyper compressed and played so repetively over and over and... I feel like Sysphus here - doomed to listen to these audio boulders for all eternity.

Promo's should be informative without destroying the mood and given a 30-45 day fuze before they are replaced. Keeping the same promo's for over a year is driving us mad, and not in a good way :-)

The point about the promos not changing is fair and well taken. But c'mon, didn't the "gay folk - Breton music" exchange make you smile the first time you heard it?

We'll continue to work on variety in the promos, and I'm a fan of having them play "occasionally" rather than "often" Keep the comments coming and we'll keep trying to improve the Moon experience...

[the_original_ib]

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,
Sean

[gagliarchives]

Yes, thank you for your feedback.

What is the problem here????????

OK...the Gnosis "Oooh that's nice" promo has been around a while but we're still talking about it aren't we? So I'd say that's a job bloody well done wouldn't you? No-one is going to forget Gnosis now so................

The shows we have to delight us on the Moon are awesome and we should (and are I'm sure) grateful. A little advertising isn't too much to put up with surely. If you don't like them do something else for the time they air.

As for the chat. I agree with Jim and Spaz here. Sean (God bless him) plays music by people that a vast majority of us have never heard OF let alone heard. So a bit of info about the bands/artist is a godsend. Don't ever change Sean, it's fine the way it is. Truly!

C'mon guys.........as King Crimson says "Be Happy with............" You can fill the rest in yourselves.

Thank you Aural Moon and everyone associated with it. You all enhance my life.

[Mako]

Originally posted by Cozy
...I respect the fact that the promos are old. And I respect the fact that they aren't for everyone. But I did the ones for Gnosis and for Progressive Shores (and Interzone), and the parties involved were very satisfied. First and foremost that is what matters to me. But yes, they are old and I will talk to those involved about changing them.

I do appreciate the effort, intent and humor that went into the promo's, no worries there, but satisfying the DJ's vs. satisfying the listeners (and demanding lot of curmudgeons we can be too) are two disinct things.

I propose the concept that that promo's should made for the audience, not for the DJ's.

So that no one will be offended, I will do the next batch of promos as vanilla and monotone as humanly possible, and without such gratuitous compression. You'll be happy to know that I had the turnip surgically removed, but it's left a big scar and I occasionally create an involuntary gurgling sound.

I'm not suggesting the ads be emasculated, goodness no! Just remember there's a groove going on and a promo that is purposely made to be jarring and annoying is a poor fit with the programming. De-compression is good and much appreciated, thank you!

If there's a better way to describe the audio FX that were used for the Gnosis promos than turnip in the throat-itis, I'm totally open to it. My vocabulary comes up short otherwise.

Personally, I'm going to have fun with any/every promo I make and every show I produce. I prefer to approach it with a sense of humor but also be informative.

I appreciate and applaud that approach certainly.

I'm sure I speak for most of the other radio personalities here as well (at least Gags, Prog Shores, and Gnosis). And you know....if the style doesn't suit your critical taste, you can always turn it off. I for one am very thankful for the individual approach of each of the DJs and wouldn't want to see any of them compromise their style.

That's the point: I Do turn off the Gnosis promos. That's the definition of a promo that doesn't work isn't it? One that makes listeners reach for the Off button (or in broadcast radio, the button that tunes in your competetitor's station instead, which is Really Bad ju-ju).

Of course I do turn the shows off when they become boring or unsatisfying musically.

The point is I am offering a bit of constructive critisism which should be evaluated, and then either ignored or accepted as it makes sense to the producers of the shows.

Re: Sean's mic time... Sean McFee is just about one of the most articulate, most knowledgable music fans I know. He's also done a great deal over the years to

The underlying message being I am somehow saying he isn't a worthwhile DJ or I'm somehow questioning his Cred in the Prog community, got it.

That's not what I said at all. I do feel he talks too much to the minutia of the music and stand by my opinon that listening to P.S. feels like sitting in a class room. That's a totally legit and constructive critique to make and it is no reflection on the man or his contributions to the Prog scene in general.

If that's the intent/concept behind Progressive Shores, well bully for Sean and those fans who do enjoy the show. I certainly enjoy the monster variety of world tunes Sean plays, and that's why I still tune in until I'm overwhelmed and punch up a nice .mu3 or two of my own.

support the progressive rock community including co-producing festivals and co-running a record label. If he comes off as snooty, lecturing, or "in love with his own voice", I can tell you that's merely your perception. I know him very well, and know he's not that way.

A wee bit of lightening up would be worthwhile here I think. I'd hoped the bombastic tone of my message would have conveyed that, but I missed the mark there obviously.

Sean most certainly does not come off as snooty at all, but he does come off, perhaps inadvertantly, as a passionate but pedantic presenter of some really kick glutemus maximus music. Keeping the passion and dialing back on the pedantic components would tighten up the show considerably and make it that much more enjoyable in my opinion.

It's totally Sean's gig though, and if PS doesn't hook me, no worries, I'll queue up some Flower Kings and IQ and call it good for a couple of hours.

Keep in mind I'm just one listener with no cred in the prog scene beyond casual fan status. And that's ok. If it's not, well, c'est la vie, no?

Re: talking in general.... For every person that (as was so eloquently stated) wants the DJs to "shut up and play yer guitar", there are at least 5-10 others that

Ok, well, where are they then? Tell those lads to step up and be proud and be counted! No slacking allowed!

I tried to express the concept of being concise somewhere in my overly long winded anything but concise posts.

I still maintain that is part 'n parcel of being a good presenter for anything anywhere be it radio, TV or Toast Master presenter. Rambling deep into minutia is never a desirable style for any speaker. Put the deep info on the web page as needed, that's cool, but not into a mic.

appreciate the DJ's perspective on the music and the information they convey. After all, a monkey can merely program tracks into the system, but how much of a show is that??? On the avg, my entire talking portions run about 15 minutes during a 3-hour show.

But that's your show...

A good speaker can get his talking points across in 60 seconds flat. That's a screaming great gob of airtime in the broadcast radio genre. Anything more than that and you risk talking to a zombied out audience waiting for the Mellotrons.

Lastly, while all the radio personalities certainly appreciate the need for criticism (personally, I ask for it at the end of every one of my shows), I know it would be taken more seriously from those who don't exclusively focus on what is *wrong* with something.

- Cozy [/b]

I fail to see how phrases like I enjoy the wide variety of tunes played and Sean has a righteous and most appreciated taste in world music are not highlighting what the shows are doing right?

CYa!
Mako

[Mako]

Originally posted by progdirjim shows is a small percentage of their airtime, I don't see any need for drastic change. (The Gagliarchives is completely outside my control.)

Agreed and understood, and also not at all part of my observations above

As far as Progressive Shores goes, I rarely meet anyone who introduces me to good music I haven't heard before - Sean seems to come up with several every week. I think Sean is very knowledgeable and provides some good background on the music he plays.

I'm totally impressed by the music he plays, and have said so several times. I would just prefer less detail and more music. A simple critique/request which may be taken or left as Sean see's fit..

The point about the promos not changing is fair and well taken. But c'mon, didn't the "gay folk - Breton music" exchange make you smile the first time you heard it?

The first time yes, but the by the 400th, yipes!

We'll continue to work on variety in the promos, and I'm a fan of having them play "occasionally" rather than "often" Keep the comments coming and we'll keep trying to improve the Moon experience... [/b]

Rockin', and thanks for leaving my tail feathers un-singed, it's much appreciated!

CYa!
Mako

[Cozy]

Originally posted by Mako
I propose the concept that that promo's should made for the audience, not for the DJ's.

To be clear, what I said was that first and foremost the DJs needed to be satisfied, not that the audience should not be.

Just remember there's a groove going on and a promo that is purposely made to be jarring and annoying is a poor fit with the programming.

Have you *heard* some of the music Aural Moon plays?

The point is I am offering a bit of constructive critisism which should be evaluated, and then either ignored or accepted as it makes sense to the producers of the shows.

Everyone appreciates constructive criticism. Your posts, primarily your tone re: Sean came across a bit beyond that to me. But perhaps I'm just being defensive of a friend.

Ok, well, where are they then? Tell those lads to step up and be proud and be counted! No slacking allowed!

While they won't be found in a hanging CHAD somewhere , it's pretty much the consensus of opinion anytime I've ever seen the subject discussed be it specifically with myself or in general.

Rambling deep into minutia is never a desirable style for any speaker. Put the deep info on the web page as needed, that's cool, but not into a mic.

All I can say is, this is amateur radio full of volunteers who put together radio shows for the benefit of their listeners (and perhaps to rub their own ego a bit). Many of these guys are first and foremost music fans and collectors before they are radio talents. While making comparisons to how "the radio community" does things can be helpful and feedback can be noted, it's a bit much to expect those standards at a place like Aural Moon I think. I mean, if AM did everything the radio community does, it wouldn't be AM anymore.


- Cozy

[Rick and Roll]

Maybe I am a bit naive, but I found Mako's original post to be constructive criticism, nothing more.

There's too much consternation and all around ill will in the world to be jabbering back and forth defending what we do. I took what Mako said about my show specifically as notes for improvement (although I disagreed with the analysis of the military promo, most others found that funny).

Being a creature of habit, my show lengths, voice lengths, etc are very consistent. The 5-7 minutes of chat per 3 hr show will remain.

Mako, be warned: Although I lost the urge to record promos, save for the quick current week synopsis, I may just throw in a few later in the summer.

[Cozy]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
There's too much consternation and all around ill will in the world to be jabbering back and forth defending what we do.

It's just a discussion. No blood has been spilled. And I checked my head yesterday for scars and am happy to report that I didn't find any.

Regarding the talking portions of a program, there are obviously different viewpoints there. There's no harm hearing them.

Regarding the promos, ultimately it was good that it was brought up, not so much because I agree about opinions on the content of the promos, but the fact that they have been running for so long. (I was not doing any shows here from mid-August through mid-March which is why I personally didn't replace the existing ones).

I personally ask for feedback every week at the end of my programs, and I have frankly received very little so far. So I am certainly open to discussing my show, music, my playlist, my views on the New York Yankees, whatever.


It's all good....


- Cozy