Home Theater Q's? Hear AM at your best

[sharcnorris]

MY passion is Prog. and the horse I ride it on, My Sound System has been my Hobby for 35 years, I read 4 A/V mags a month and install for friends, Let me tell you why the 128k AM feed is so much nicer. DVD-AUDIO, 5.1, 7.1, HDTV, LCD, DLP, MP3, it"s maddening !! Still You may have what you need for improvement with a few tweeks or, it's time to UPGRADE!! I sell nothing, I'm a Painter w/ this Passon Fellow Moonwalkers ask me anything

[sharcnorris]

Thank you for visiting this thread. As a new member I wanted to give something back to my Prog. Club. I'm sure you are very Tech. Savey and Know so much more about Puters than I ever will. Sound Presentation is MY thing, room acoustics, New vs. Old. Getting the finest Sound Aural Moon can offer! Even when you don't reply, I'm happy that this helps introduce me.

[progdirjim(Admin)]

OK, I'll bite.

My home theater set up currently uses a Bose Lifestyle something or other. I've found, after initially being thrilled with the Bose speakers, some shortcomings.

Most notably, they are weak in the midrange zone, which results in a lack of presence. the bass and highs are great, but the midrange is just lacking. It took awhile for me to notice it.

the other issue is sometimes the "effects" coming from the surround speakers seems to drown out dialogue - this can be somewhat mitigated by controlling the surround volume, and I suppose speaker placement could be partially to blame, but I wanted to see what your thoughts were.

So if I upgrade, any recommendations?

[zvinki]

Hi,

I am also looking for some help for my listening room. This room is strictly set aside for a stereo and a chair, nothing else so I am looking for strictly sound.

I have recently added a pair of Totem Sttaf speakers and love their natural sound. My only complaint is that they seem to do best with accoustic instruments so my Tool suffers. I have noticed that my amplifier just doesn't cut it anymore and am looking to upgrade to something a bit warmer. I have heard good things about Arcam and am looking for more options before I go into my big search. Any suggestions?

[Rick and Roll]

Here's my dilemma

My wife listens to "the greatest hits of the 60's and 70's" in the kitchen. My kids are always trying to use the computer. My kids like Rush but I can't get them into Gentle Giant.

The only time I can listen to music in relative peace is in the car (not often) and on headphones (limits my options).

Any suggestions?

[sharcnorris]

First, the Bose speaker size is the culprit. Small tweeters are standard even in large speakers and therefore can give you fine imaging and brite highs. The bass being diverted at 80- 100 Htz is working you r subby hopefully to your liking. In large quality speakers, sometimes 2-8 8inch woofers are used for just mid-range . This shows you what the speaker makers think it takes to make the middle. The Bose SIZE just can"t cut it. Also I'd guess the Amp. only has 10-30 watts per speaker.75 -150 is really needed for big Hollywood bangs. At speaking voice volume your at peak power and any extra demand is going to begin garbling your sound. Sorry, while spousal acceptance is high with this system. big fidelity is not.... Your surrounds: distance and volume should be set properly in the Main units Menu. Surrounds are hardly audible in most playbacks, if they are two loud, are they to close? Can you decrease them in the menu for a more even affect then spot changes. Thats what I got without saying --Upgrade to full size speakers .

[sharcnorris]

Your telling me your main listening is w/headphones. So I,ll address this angle.... There are several ways to inprove the Headphone experience. First the phones, ...while open foam phone can sound terrific, you can hear the outside world as well, Bose makes a closed cup NOISE-CANCELING type that I just love. turned on and with no sound sourse, they make the world QUIET. My wife claims she does'nt hear the plane when flying. They also reproduce full range sound very nicely, here's my angle for you, DOLBY LABS has added a new wrinkle in Headphoning. In 2005 receivers, a feature called DOLBY HEADPHONE has been added!! This allows you to Hear 5.1 surround IN YOUR HEADPHONES!!The improvement of Surround in any standard phones, It sounds great with Movies(dolby Digital) AND Music (Dolby Pro-Logic 2).... Or Build your own Music Room for just your self, private time. see what to consider in my next answer.

[sharcnorris]

When you say stereo you really mean 2 channel don't you. Todays "stereos" really have 6 speakers called 5.1.The 1 is a separate subwoofer. ... Playing my 2channel Music , AuralMoon, or my 1000 recordings. Dolby Pro-logic2 is a must. the Imaging increases, The centered singer/solo is stronger, and the natural aireness is enhanced, flipping back to "stereo" calapses the field and most tunes fall flat in comparison. Also very few speakers even towers are fullrange reaching to true lows. A sub-woofer adds a great deal to ''just music". Your amp. probably can't tool out because power drain for Bass and Mid-range is 10 times more than acoustical Highs. Your probably unpowered and under bassed. Adcom does indeed make nice pre-amps,Almost all are 5.1 models, it's the power amps times 5 that cost. Your towers are just fine, You would like to get a center speaker in the same brand but you can cheet with some of your old ones for the 2 surrounds. Finally DVD-AUDIO and SACD discs are the finest sounding material available. Most mixed just for the 5.1 set- ups .Porcupine Tree'sIN ABSENSIA in DVD-A is incredible....I'm mostly concerned with your room acoustics so let me do a primer in your next answer.

[sharcnorris]

I see you said Arcam, not Adcom. My mistake. Also a nice reliable Brand. A quality all in one receiver is the way to go..Pre-amp and power amps are pricy and are very needy.If you can do It ,they are state of the art . Todays receivers can have plenty of power and all the new features for5.1 SOUND reproduction.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
Here's my dilemma

My wife listens to "the greatest hits of the 60's and 70's" in the kitchen. My kids are always trying to use the computer. My kids like Rush but I can't get them into Gentle Giant.

The only time I can listen to music in relative peace is in the car (not often) and on headphones (limits my options).

Any suggestions?

A new wife into Prog and Kill the kids...

... or a really good set of earspeakers.

[sharcnorris]

a chair and a stereo, hmmmmmmmmmm,
Let me tell all Moonies how to have a better sounding system by FINE TUNEING the ROOM!! Sound echoes, Bass floods, Highs can squeel. Here's some basic rules on room acoustics:
You want your recording to sound as if your in the room with the artists, Voices and instruments should come out of thin air not from your speakers. this is called IMAGING, where the sounds come from where the artist is positioned while playing. Imaging is enhanced if the front-speaker end of the room absorbs echoes. Curtains, Rugs, Plants, bookcases, stuffed furniture, all help to deaden the secondary echoes that make pristene blurry, Windows, empty wall, Hardwood floors all kill Imaging. At the Listeners end the opposite is desired. the "live " end CAN be hard and reflective. this adds to the Concert hall effect of live ambience. ..Also...Front Speakers MUST be away from walls at least a foot, a yard is better, with the tweeters at ear level. The listener should be away from the back wall 1/3 to 1/2 way in. Bass is boomy sitting against the back wall.
Rear speaker placement depends on type. Subbys in front corners are the bassist. Sometimes to boomy. Here's a starter,
ENJOY the Majic

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
Your telling me your main listening is w/headphones. So I,ll address this angle. There are several ways to inprove the Headphone experience. First the phones, ...while open foam phone can sound terrific, you can hear the outside world as well, Bose makes a closed cup NOISE-CANCELING type that I just love. turned on and with no sound sourse, they make the world QUIET. My wife claims she does'nt hear the plane when flying. They also reproduce full range sound very nicely, here's my angle for you, DOLBY LABS has added a new wrinkle in Headphoning. In 2005 receivers, a feature called DOLBY HEADPHONE has been added!! This allows you to Hear 5.1 surround IN YOUR HEADPHONES!!The improvement of Surround in any standard phones, It sound great with Movies(dolby Digital) AND Music (Dolby Pro-Logic 2). Or Build your own Music Room for just your self, private time. see what to consider in my next answer.

Noise cancelling technology is great on a cross county or trans-atlantic flight but it colors the sound.

Thanks but I'll stick with my Stax SR-Lamba Pro earspeakers. Flat from 0 to 75KHz. Still the sound to beat.

[sharcnorris]

Originally posted by progdirjim
OK, I'll bite.



So if I upgrade, any recommendations?

Jim, just now learning how to use this Quote thing. I'm mainly speaking concepts rather than Brands. To do specifics there's , Money bugit, where it go's, etc. I can tell you that good sounding equipment is there at fair prices. THE BEST? A top rated $6000 DENON receiver would kick anyones a**, but maybe lauphed at by someone with a $22,ooo Meridian Set-up, I easily recommend $2500 6 Speaker systems from B&W, MISSION,DEF TECH, and others but Maybe NAUTILAS Speakers at 10k each are your need, I recommend a receiver with Pro-logic2, At least 100 watts per channel, Backlit remotes, 5.1, and two HDTV connections. 1 universal player and a computer audio hookup. You know now your woofers suck, ask me what you really want to know.

[Bob Lentil]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
Jim, just now learning how to use this Quote thing. I'm mainly speaking concepts rather than Brands. To do specifics there's , Money bugit, where it go's, etc. I can tell you that good sounding equipment is there at fair prices. THE BEST? A top rated $6000 DENON receiver would kick anyones a**, but maybe lauphed at by someone with a $22,ooo Meridian Set-up, I easily recommend $2500 6 Speaker systems from B&W, MISSION,DEF TECH, and others but Maybe NAUTILAS SPeackers at 10k each is your need,Irecommenda reciever with Pro-logic2, 1000watts per channel, Backlit remotes, 5.1, and HDTV, 1 universal player and a computer audio hookup. You know now your woofers suck, ask me what you really want to know.

I bought my 5.1 system at Kmart for $40. Is this Meridian set-up you speak of 550 times better?

[sharcnorris]

Originally posted by Bob Lentil
I bought my 5.1 system at Kmart for $40.

Wow, $ 6.66 a channel, bet it sounds great, I hear they are selling Cars at dunkin' Donuts. Don't trip over the dog running out

[sharcnorris]

Originally posted by Bob Lentil
I bought my 5.1 system at Kmart for $40. Is this Meridian set-up you speak of 550 times better?

Lets talk money for sound,
For $1,500 you can get a good sounding 6speaker & electronics rig.
I'm talking players separate for now. This would be a receiver, for routing , processing, and amplification. 5 Speakers for L/R/ and center W/ 2 Surrounds, and a powered Subwoofer.

For $4-$6000. you can get Excellant performance at any volume and pristine processing. This, by the way, is MY range. Getting the 2nd tier of the brands rated the finest in the world.

For $10,ooo you are at STATE OF THE ART. Nothing this painter could ever even get at sniff at but I have listened to these for hours, wonderfull, wonderfull stuff.

For beyond that, There are mono-block amps that cost 20K, who knows, I'm sure thier owners are very happy.

For the $800-$1,500. range, systems are good at lower volume and modest dynamics but strain when put to the T3 test video. See my first responce from Jim and his under $15oo system.

Finally , the worst thing you can do is get a new HDTV big screen and shortchange the sound with an under 1k sound system. Now for your K-mart 5.1 ...............UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob Lentil]

Originally posted by sharcnorris
Finally , the worst thing you can do is get a new HDTV big screen and shortchange the sound with and under 1k sound system.

I'm currently sporting a 13 inch TV, so my setup is well-balanced at the moment. One thing that I find amusing about using a tiny TV with positional audio is that the sound travels a lot further than the stuff on screen. For example, while I'm watching a movie a car may drive a few inches across the screen while the audio swings across the room.

When I bought my home theater system, I was really just looking for a DVD player. My system was marked down to $40 from about $200 and was cheaper than any of the stand alone DVD players anyway, so I sprung for some tinny surround.

[lotus]

I am not the up to date expert on HiFi systems (maybe I was 20 years ago, allthough I never had the money to realize the perfect system at that time).

I would just like to give some comments on the thread which I find very informative.

IMHO we should return to the very basic; that means, live music is played in front of you, the rest is just acoustic, reflections of the music which is played in the front. Dolby 5.1 and the rest is just to give you an illusion of room. I bought back in the 80's a DSP system from Yamaha with 4 additional speakers, just to do this, give you an illusion. Only a couple of weeks I removed it, because the music comming from the front only (specially on studio recordings) for me is the best for a natural sound.

To check a natural sound one can choose a good recording of a solo artist singing and maybe playing a guitar on his own and he should appear (if you clouse your eyes) in front of you just in the middle of the two stereo speakers. Second test is a classic concert, in which you should be able to point the location of the different instrumens in the wide round.

If this fails (and I am not speaking yet about the quality of the sound), there is something wrong with your system. Most cases, the poles to the speakers are inversed, that means that the + on one speaker is at - at the other (check that). If everything there is ok, your amp has probs...

Quality of the sound: The weekest point in every HiFi system is the speaker. It has to be the biggest investment in your system! And it has to have volume, that means it has to be big and heavy. I agree fully on Sharc's comment on Jim's Bose speakers. They are nice, but they are too small. And I absolutelly do not like subwoofers. All ppl tell that you cannot detect them, but I detect them because they give a weight to one direction or the other (if you do not locate them just in the center). Regarding the electronics, amp, my personal opinion is, that for ppl of certain age (like I am) we cannot distinguish acoustically a US$ 5000 amp from a US$ 500 amp, if they are top quality. Electronics have gones so far and so cheap, that our aged ear cannot tell the difference (just regarding the electronics).

So resuming, in my oppinion the old stereo is 100% valid, just have the the right speakers on it.

Sharc, I am expecting your reply...

[sharcnorris]

If it works for you GREAT. there are just audio limitations. My intention is to Help improve your sound for a richer Aural Moon, not a richer Merchant nearby.

[sharcnorris]

Originally posted by lotus


Sharc, I am expecting your reply...

Lotus what a wonderfull missive, I'm working on my reply, The Above Reply is for BOB and his Blue-light special ,not you... Tonight The Bombastic VAN HELSING is on in HDTV & 5.1 sound. I can't miss a minute of the deep Thunderclaps, demons from behind me, and that rich Hollywood score. Afterwards I'll tell you why I enjoy a Rick Wakeman solo in Dolby Pro-logic 2 rather than plain stereo