Station programming

[MrMagoo]

There's been more discussion in black of late regarding requests, over-requests, more DJ-ing, etc. So here's some personal observations & ideas, fueled by lack of sleep & coffee.

Avian, you mentioned in black last week that you could list the SAM/etc rules. Could you post them so we know what we're working with/against?

Over time, the 2 biggest complaints I've noticed are about repeated requests for the same track and/or artist, and lack of diversity. The latter seems to come from the more knowledgable folks. No slight there, some are more edoomakated, newbies both want to hear their favorites and learn the AM system, and others just want what they want. A distant 3rd complaint (guilty!) is that shows interfere with requests.

The days that seem to have more black box discussions, diversity, and overall fun & mayhem are to some extent Request Free Wed, shows with DJ interaction, and overwhelmingly Themin' Thursday. From this I read that 'stuff' that actively or passively encourages exploration & diverstity - that causes user to think - is what make the Moon go 'round. No big suprise, so how can we encourage more? How can we stimulate (legally!) the old timers/wizenheimers/jaded, whilst bringing the newcomers into the fold - aka programming them the AM way?

Passively the SAM rules could be made more strict: 48 hours between tracks, 24 hours between albums, 6 hours between artists, etc. But that's rather draconian & frustrating IMO. OTOH proactive solutions might entail another theme'd day, adding a group DJ'd show, forum postings on discussions/suggestions by the smart folk, etc. Any other ideas, have at it!

Now back to my regularly scheduled work...

PS: I think that a sticky forum thread of FAQ for newbies or even a permanant news item would go a long ways towards indoctr^H^H^H^H^H^Hinforming newcomers about the basics & the benefits.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by MrMagoo

There's been more discussion in black of late regarding requests, over-requests, more DJ-ing, etc. So here's some personal observations & ideas, fueled by lack of sleep & coffee.

Avian, you mentioned in black last week that you could list the SAM/etc rules. Could you post them so we know what we're working with/against?

Over time, the 2 biggest complaints I've noticed are about repeated requests for the same track and/or artist, and lack of diversity. The latter seems to come from the more knowledgable folks. No slight there, some are more edoomakated, newbies both want to hear their favorites and learn the AM system, and others just want what they want. A distant 3rd complaint (guilty!) is that shows interfere with requests.

The days that seem to have more black box discussions, diversity, and overall fun & mayhem are to some extent Request Free Wed, shows with DJ interaction, and overwhelmingly Themin' Thursday. From this I read that 'stuff' that actively or passively encourages exploration & diverstity - that causes user to think - is what make the Moon go 'round. No big suprise, so how can we encourage more? How can we stimulate (legally!) the old timers/wizenheimers/jaded, whilst bringing the newcomers into the fold - aka programming them the AM way?

Passively the SAM rules could be made more strict: 48 hours between tracks, 24 hours between albums, 6 hours between artists, etc. But that's rather draconian & frustrating IMO. OTOH proactive solutions might entail another theme'd day, adding a group DJ'd show, forum postings on discussions/suggestions by the smart folk, etc. Any other ideas, have at it!

Now back to my regularly scheduled work...

PS: I think that a sticky forum thread of FAQ for newbies or even a permanant news item would go a long ways towards indoctr^H^H^H^H^H^Hinforming newcomers about the basics & the benefits.

FAQ:
===
I've been pushin for a FAQ for some time now. How about a FAQ thread. Post some of the things you found you didn't understand and/or learned about the operations and then a FAQ tab can be added to the main page.

Over-Requests:
==========
There was a time I removed some over-requested tracks. VAX got his wrists slapped after the requester complained about it.

The web server is now running from my basement data center/office. The moon streams there 24 hrs a day as well. I'm listening enough to know when a track has played and when it plays too soon after I've heard it. I would LOVE to curtail some of those requests.

Shows:
=====
On the otherhand, I've always LIKED the request nature of AM and would hate to see that disappear. I'm personally not fond of the shows -- Gags being the exception. Gagliarchives is a radio show. He presents interviews, noteworth information, in station (or virtual in station) live performances and, after 15 years of doing so, has a very polished professional show. AM's other time slots here are really glorified playlists in comparison. No offense intended. 2 hours, IMO, should be the upper time limit for a show. Sean's show at 2 hrs length is great!!! especially for things like Greenland prog! How much can you find to fill some of these slots.

Requests:
======
I like that listeners can drive the content. A little intervention once in a while so those listeners don't drive in circles might be in order but to take that away would destroy one of the great features of AM.

New Music:
=======
As for new additions, perhaps they need to be listed in a special "catagory" when added so that they are played. Adding new music to this enormous library will mean that it will have as much of an impact on the playlist selection process as pissing in the ocean will have on tidal flooding. Roger had been listing new additions to the playlist in a forum thread... it's inexorable and easily lost amongst all of the forum postings. Maybe a "new music" tab with the week's latest adds.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

FAQ:
===

Shows:
=====
On the otherhand, I've always LIKED the request nature of AM and would hate to see that disappear. I'm personally not fond of the shows -- Gags being the exception. Gagliarchives is a radio show. He presents interviews, noteworth information, in station (or virtual in station) live performances and, after 15 years of doing so, has a very polished professional show. AM's other time slots here are really glorified playlists in comparison. No offense intended. 2 hours, IMO, should be the upper time limit for a show. Sean's show at 2 hrs length is great!!! especially for things like Greenland prog! How much can you find to fill some of these slots.

New Music:
=======
As for new additions, perhaps they need to be listed in a special "catagory" when added so that they are played. Adding new music to this enormous library will mean that it will have as much of an impact on the playlist selection process as pissing in the ocean will have on tidal flooding. Roger had been listing new additions to the playlist in a forum thread... it's inexorable and easily lost amongst all of the forum postings. Maybe a "new music" tab with the week's latest adds.

Magoo has some cogent points...that should be discussed...I'm not sure if your "shows" comment addresses this. It seems like you're complimenting one show by taking a swipe at the others. Since I have one of the "playlists" I'll respond by saying I am not offended. I've found the vast majority of listeners like the show, and Magoo did mention "shows with DJ interaction". None of us are paid for our work, and if I found the listener number dwindles when I am on, I adjust accordingly. But they do not. Same with Interzone and Fusion Reactor. We all get the same or more listeners than usual. And they've done many shows by the way.

It's great you like Gags, a lot of us do. But don't say limit shows to 2 hrs then not say that his show is ok at 4 hours.

I never did or want to do a "radio" show - I take requests and advice and try to make it a community show. We do fun shows for the listener. Enough on that.

As for new additions, I didn't see where Magoo addressed that. I think what Roger Lee does is fine. I thought it was linked to the front page (or it should be). Usually Jim or Dot will DJ a bunch of the new songs. And I try to play as many as I can on the show also. A lot of "new" additions are really just filling out the playlist.

Magoo, good thread. I have really no opinion on SAM rules, or any format suggestions, I'll leave that to everyone else (come on everyone, opinions!). But I AM big on communication and presenting the station in the easiest format and best way possible. We're growing, and the geographic range of listeners is expanding. I am trying to market the show on the my space (it does work), and will talk up ALL the programming.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

It's great you like Gags, a lot of us do. But don't say limit shows to 2 hrs then not say that his show is ok at 4 hours.

Tom's show is a regular FM radio show that AM just happens to retransmit. There's no control over its content.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

I never did or want to do a "radio" show - I take requests and advice and try to make it a community show. We do fun shows for the listener. Enough on that.

Understood.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Magoo, good thread. I have really no opinion on SAM rules, or any format suggestions, I'll leave that to everyone else (come on everyone, opinions!). But I AM big on communication and presenting the station in the easiest format and best way possible. We're growing, and the geographic range of listeners is expanding. I am trying to market the show on the my space (it does work), and will talk up ALL the programming.

The "marketing" is great. I only wish we had more streams to bring on the potential new moonies. The web server has had as many as 150+ people on it. I doubt all the listeners we have also hang on the web page; I'd bet there's probably more that don't. I can handle the web site without issue in terms of the bandwidth but I just don't have the bandwidth it takes to handle all the streams -- I wish I did. Verizon is supposed to be stringing fiber here by this time next year. Maybe then I could take on the streaming server.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

The "marketing" is great. I only wish we had more streams to bring on the potential new moonies. The web server has had as many as 150+ people on it. I doubt all the listeners we have also hang on the web page; I'd bet there's probably more that don't. I can handle the web site without issue in terms of the bandwidth but I just don't have the bandwidth it takes to handle all the streams -- I wish I did. Verizon is supposed to be stringing fiber here by this time next year. Maybe then I could take on the streaming server.

Definitely not, I'd estimate a little less than half don't. We got to figure out a way to share the burden of cost.

[progdirjim(Admin)]

OK, a few ground rules.

We will not remove the ability to request music on Aural Moon.

All current shows are staying on Aural Moon as long as the hosts want to do them.

Marketing is great, but we are not lacking for listeners. We are lacking for money. I am dropping close to $300 a month into the streams. Patron donations offset part of that, but trust me, it costs me a lot. (The more patrons we get, the more we have to pay for the 128K stream. I can explain the cost structure offline.) If we can figure out a way to parlay more listeners into more revenue, that's great. I am OK with subsidising much of the cost, but adding to the costs becomes harder for me to justify personally.

We can also discuss shows offline. I can offer a justification for each of our shows. I just wish we had more streams available, to give people choices. We have way too much music that doesn't get played as it is. The main reason I got involved with AM in the first place was to hear new (to me) music, and I want that to continue to be one of the focuses of AM.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by progdirjim

OK, a few ground rules.

We will not remove the ability to request music on Aural Moon.

Originally Posted by progdirjim

Marketing is great, but we are not lacking for listeners. We are lacking for money. I am dropping close to $300 a month into the streams. Patron donations offset part of that, but trust me, it costs me a lot. (The more patrons we get, the more we have to pay for the 128K stream. I can explain the cost structure offline.) If we can figure out a way to parlay more listeners into more revenue, that's great. I am OK with subsidising much of the cost, but adding to the costs becomes harder for me to justify personally.

Send more money moonies!!!

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by progdirjim

I am OK with subsidising much of the cost, but adding to the costs becomes harder for me to justify personally.

We have way too much music that doesn't get played as it is. The main reason I got involved with AM in the first place was to hear new (to me) music, and I want that to continue to be one of the focuses of AM.

At some point, send me a summary sheet of costs/amounts for Aural Moon (a while ago I think you mentioned maybe having me look at that). I can take a look at it sometime in October and come back to you with some ideas.

Totally agree on the new music (and new to the listener, just as important, great point). To add to that, hearing music you haven't heard for a awhile is a big part of how I select music for the show. I really enjoy hearing someone say "I haven't heard that in ages"....

[the_original_ib]

Originally Posted by progdirjim

We can also discuss shows offline. I can offer a justification for each of our shows. I just wish we had more streams available, to give people choices. We have way too much music that doesn't get played as it is. The main reason I got involved with AM in the first place was to hear new (to me) music, and I want that to continue to be one of the focuses of AM.

I am certainly happy to discuss my show with anyone anytime they like. Obviously there are some things that can't be helped; the focus is what it is, and there was some guy who posted once who hates my voice/style who's basically SOL. But other than that, constructive criticism can only improve things.

Regards,
Sean

[Cozy]

Interesting thread. I'm certainly willing to help more to solidify AM programming when I can. I had several ideas to take AM to the next level that I mentioned early this year. None have been implemented as of yet, which is fine. But if AM ever wants to expand in certain directions, I'm all for 'fighting the good fight'.

Re: new moon additions. Good idea, but RF Wednesday has both a Fusion Reactor and Interzone replay, correct? Perhaps another day with less programming would be ideal.

Originally Posted by VAXman

FAQ:
Gagliarchives is a radio show. He presents interviews, noteworth information, in station (or virtual in station) live performances and, after 15 years of doing so, has a very polished professional show. AM's other time slots here are really glorified playlists in comparison. No offense intended.

I was a little surprised by this quote. I'm not offended by this comment, but I must say that calling Interzone a "glorified playlist" really is a demoralizing comment to read (not to mention inaccurate) coming from someone involved in keeping the radio station operational.

One could say Aural Moon is fortunate to broadcast Gags every week, as he puts on a great show from an FM outlet. But you really can't compare his show to the others on AM, nor expect any of those people to live up to the standards of a weekly FM radio broadcast. I could go into several reasons why, but no need to bore everyone.

Originally Posted by the_original_ib

I am certainly happy to discuss my show with anyone anytime they like. Obviously there are some things that can't be helped; the focus is what it is, and there was some guy who posted once who hates my voice/style who's basically SOL. But other than that, constructive criticism can only improve things.

I completely agree. Nice to have you back, btw.


- Cozy

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by the_original_ib

I am certainly happy to discuss my show with anyone anytime they like. Obviously there are some things that can't be helped; the focus is what it is, and there was some guy who posted once who hates my voice/style who's basically SOL. But other than that, constructive criticism can only improve things.

Regards,
Sean

I like your show. I'm always amazed that you can find the music you play for a particular country. The "Greenland" prog I mentioned in an earlier post was a joke... but somehow, I'd bet you could probably find 2 hours worth of "glacier prog"!

Some moonies have complained about Tom speaking too much during his show. You say people are complaining about your voice; I don't know anything about that. My playlist comment was directly about the people complaining that Tom's show has too much talk and not enough music. Most of AM's shows play a list of songs, yours Sean included, with a minimal bit of commentary. On the otherhand, I know Tom has had artist interviews which exceed 1/2 hour in length. He also has public service announcements and South Jersey history. Gagliarchives is broadcast on a college radio station and the FCC requires such stations to provide certain level of public service announcement. It's also transmitted in the South Jersey area; hence, the South Jersey history tidbits. If that bothers AM listeners, they are not forced to listen... go spin up a CD.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

My playlist comment was directly about the people complaining that Tom's show has too much talk and not enough music.

Maybe, but I must say you did a poor job of relaying that. Trust me that is not how it read.

Here is your quote:

"He presents interviews, noteworth information, in station (or virtual in station) live performances and, after 15 years of doing so, has a very polished professional show. AM's other time slots here are really glorified playlists in comparison. No offense intended."

No offense was taken, but you must realize that after you say "polished professional" then say "other time slots" you are painting a brush over every other show, and it's not the most complimentary light. I must say though Cozy had some fun with it on his show...but please reference why you write that first, and we all won't get the wrong idea next time.

By the way, Cozy's show has a lot of commentary. He catches grief for his opinions too - someone said "he doesn't like anything"! We had fun with that one also.

If I could, while I'm here, please let me ask you about this quote:

"It's because I love the music that I donated the server and the bandwidth. I believed that it might offset Jim's costs and that others might have felt compelled to be altruistic as well... Silly me."

I took this hopefully a different way than you intended it. Can you expand on this? Thanks.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Maybe, but I must say you did a poor job of relaying that. Trust me that is not how it read.

Here is your quote:

"He presents interviews, noteworth information, in station (or virtual in station) live performances and, after 15 years of doing so, has a very polished professional show. AM's other time slots here are really glorified playlists in comparison. No offense intended."

No offense was taken, but you must realize that after you say "polished professional" then say "other time slots" you are painting a brush over every other show, and it's not the most complimentary light. I must say though Cozy had some fun with it on his show...but please reference why you write that first, and we all won't get the wrong idea next time.

By the way, Cozy's show has a lot of commentary. He catches grief for his opinions too - someone said "he doesn't like anything"! We had fun with that one also.

If I could, while I'm here, please let me ask you about this quote:

"It's because I love the music that I donated the server and the bandwidth. I believed that it might offset Jim's costs and that others might have felt compelled to be altruistic as well... Silly me."

I took this hopefully a different way than you intended it. Can you expand on this? Thanks.

No because I'm still awaiting for you to answer to the bombshell you dropped in my email over a week ago.

If it really bothers you, I can pull the plug on the web server.

Respectfully, VAX
.... who is now happy he has to only spend 1 day at SEfest!

[the_original_ib]

Originally Posted by VAXman

I like your show. I'm always amazed that you can find the music you play for a particular country. The "Greenland" prog I mentioned in an earlier post was a joke... but somehow, I'd bet you could probably find 2 hours worth of "glacier prog"!

Some moonies have complained about Tom speaking too much during his show. You say people are complaining about your voice; I don't know anything about that. My playlist comment was directly about the people complaining that Tom's show has too much talk and not enough music. Most of AM's shows play a list of songs, yours Sean included, with a minimal bit of commentary.

Yeah and I just want to emphasize, my nose is not out of joint over anything you said, because:
1) Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I would respect yours regardless of whether I agreed with it.
2) I am more interested in working on any aspects of the show perceived as weak than worrying about who said what and why, so I am very open minded to any constructive criticism you or anyone else has.

There is definitely an absurd aspect to doing a six part series on Yugoslavia. Some people will say "Great", some "Oh please", and others might not even notice there is a show at all.

If I did not have a full-time job I might be able to track down an ex member of Spilverk Pjodanna or Ma Banlieue Flasque each week for an interview and I think it would be very interesting. I am totally serious! But realistically I can't do this. Tom's four hour show also involves at least another eight hours of prep throughout the week. Prep time is something I acknowledge having skimped on in the past when I get busy. I do most shows without a script now, where at the start I usually had more notes written down. But I think the way I was working at the start, I would have gotten to ten shows and quit, whereas this way I'm now at 102. I did a two-part article on Canadian prog history for Expose Magazine and the thought of repeating that task for multiple countries drains me.

If that bothers AM listeners, they are not forced to listen... go spin up a CD.

Tom's got a great show. Amen.

Regards,
Sean

Tom's show and all the others are here to stay as far as I'm concerned!!!!

How about a few more????

[MrMagoo]

Whoa! I never thought this would turn into discussion of canceling shows or requests. Sorry if that ever came across - those absolutely were not my intent. I've no idea how canceling requests entered the picture, and even though some shows don't spin my prop, I respect the DJ's and others who do enjoy that show. Mostly this was to stimulate discussion of how to encourage new music. Thus the observation of interaction based on shows with live DJ's in the black box, and Themin' Thursday.

So if users are what drive the AM family, how do we engage users further, both with station action and financial support? Ideas:
- as before & see below, a prominent FAQ
- PSA's that promote the site, URL, and features
- station pledge drives ala PBS (yes, I'm ducking now)
- goodies award/drawing give-aways; CafePress items, spare CD's, etc (PITA IMO)
- collectively DJ'd shows from users submissions, aka the notorious birthday & anniversery shows
- I like Vax's idea of more prominently featuring new music via sticky/tab/etc.
- is it possible/useful to get the site URL in the stream text tag (I've no idea if users listen without knowing about the site)?

Re FAQ: rather than starting a forum thread for discussion, I volunteer to receive FAQ PM's from everybody by mid October. I'll compile them, pass them by PDJ & Avian, then work with them to get a tab, sticky Station News, left menu item, whatever makes it persistent.

I also really want to honor Jim/Avian/Vax by making the station self-sufficient in paying for infrastructure & bandwidth!

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by MrMagoo

- station pledge drives ala PBS (yes, I'm ducking now)
-

I think that would create a situation where the same few pay most of the cost....we should be consistent with amounts donated. I hope to help with assessing this.

thanks for reeling us back in magoo...hope to get some good ideas!

[PFD]

I don't know if this is feasible but how about say on no-request Wednesdays having AM programmed to only play songs that have been input into the database in the past 12 months or something like that?

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by MrMagoo

- station pledge drives ala PBS (yes, I'm ducking now)

Donate a $150 and you get the Yanni CD

Originally Posted by MrMagoo

I also really want to honor Jim/Avian/Vax by making the station self-sufficient in paying for infrastructure & bandwidth!

It's because I love the music that I donated the server and the bandwidth. I believed that it might offset Jim's costs and that others might have felt compelled to be altruistic as well... Silly me.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

It's because I love the music that I donated the server and the bandwidth. I believed that it might offset Jim's costs and that others might have felt compelled to be altruistic as well... Silly me.

Yes we should be ashamed of ourselves.