Music removals due to SESAC fees

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Bad news for Aural Moon. SESAC, an organization that "represents" various songwriters and publishers, is trying to collect onerous fees from Aural Moon. I cannot afford to pay these fees, so I need to remove SESAC affiliated artists from the playlist.

So far, these artists are:
Alan Parsons
Mannheim Steamroller

there may also be individual songs that need to be removed - one example is a Manfred Mann song that was written by Bob Dylan.

If anyone has a way to contact these artists directly and obtain written permission for Aural Moon to play their music, that is the only way I know of to prevent their removal.

Sorry.

Totally understand your position Jim.

Can you let us know how much the fees would be? Also give us a list of the artists involved. If a concerted effort by the Moon buds would help I'm sure that everyone would pull together to try and reach a solution of sorts.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by progdirjim
Bad news for Aural Moon. SESAC, an organization that "represents" various songwriters and publishers, is trying to collect onerous fees from Aural Moon.

You bastards! You vicious, heartless bastards! Look what you've done to him! He's worked his fingers to the bone to make this place what it is, and you come in with your petty feeble quibbling and you grind him into the dirt, this fine, honourable man, whose boots you are not worthy to kiss. Oh... it makes me mad... mad!

I cannot afford to pay these fees, so I need to remove SESAC affiliated artists from the playlist.

So far, these artists are:
Alan Parsons
Mannheim Steamroller

there may also be individual songs that need to be removed - one example is a Manfred Mann song that was written by Bob Dylan.

If anyone has a way to contact these artists directly and obtain written permission for Aural Moon to play their music, that is the only way I know of to prevent their removal.

Sorry. [/b]

[Rick and Roll]

But you would be putting more money into the pockets of those who don't need to be helped. If they need to be removed, that's the way it goes. I'm not donating for that.

I can still play them right?

Please keep them in a file to make reinstalling the songs easier. You know how capricious these things are.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Keith Waye
Can you let us know how much the fees would be?

It'd probably be a flat fee to cover all SESAC artists = thousand yearly.

SESAC needs their butts kicked.

I'm sure looking up the individual artists' webpages would provide contact info. Booking information is sure to get thier attention, so going that route might get quick results. Also, I bet Tom from Gags can get in touch with folks. It may effect what he can and can't play because of AM's feed.

[progdirjim(Admin)]

As I understand it.

SESAC supposedly represents the writers, and their goal is to make sure the artists get compensated for public performance of their works. I'm willing to bet what the artists receive is a tiny percentage of what SESAC takes in, but that's neither here nor there.

The amount in question is $3200/year, and that is a blanket license for all SESAC affiliates. The only ones I've found thus far are Alan Parsons and Mannheim Streamroller, but there may be others.

Rick, unless you have permission from the artist or SESAC, you cannot play them on your show. If you do, you may be liable for fees or penalties.

I have attempted contact with both Alan Parsons and Chip Davis (Mannheim Steamroller) through their web pages, but have not heard from either yet.

If I discover additional affected artists, I'll post them here. I'm also suggesting alternate billing methods to SESAC, but I have no idea if/when that will do any good. I remain hopeful, but not holding my breath.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by progdirjim
As I understand it.

SESAC supposedly represents the writers, and their goal is to make sure the artists get compensated for public performance of their works. I'm willing to bet what the artists receive is a tiny percentage of what SESAC takes in, but that's neither here nor there.

The amount in question is $3200/year, and that is a blanket license for all SESAC affiliates. The only ones I've found thus far are Alan Parsons and Mannheim Streamroller, but there may be others.

Rick, unless you have permission from the artist or SESAC, you cannot play them on your show. If you do, you may be liable for fees or penalties.

I have attempted contact with both Alan Parsons and Chip Davis (Mannheim Steamroller) through their web pages, but have not heard from either yet.

If I discover additional affected artists, I'll post them here. I'm also suggesting alternate billing methods to SESAC, but I have no idea if/when that will do any good. I remain hopeful, but not holding my breath.

Is there a listing of the affliate artist at the SESAC site? I couldn't find a link. How do you know whether or not an artist is in SESAC?

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally posted by VAXman
Is there a listing of the affliate artist at the SESAC site? I couldn't find a link. How do you know whether or not an artist is in SESAC?

their web site is not very conducive to searching. you have to enter specific search strings. one of their lawyers contacted me, and informed me that Alan Parsons has just signed with SESAC - he's not even listed yet.

the other problem is that they repesent writers and publishers. So the Manfred mann song is a problem because Bob Dylan wrote it - making it doubly hard to find all artists. I think that's intentional, so they can coerce people into paying the blanket fee. They probably can legally keep a higher percentage of a blanket fee than if we were to pay a smaller amount to play an Alan Parsons song, for instance.

[Rick and Roll]

There's no way to tell how many of these places exist. It's extortion. So pull them, their loss.

There's plenty other music. And if there's not a list or communication about who is affected, reasonable standards apply. We'll just remove as we're told.

A folder called "SESAC artists" would work. I still think eventually these songs will be able to be played.

[RogorMortis]

After reading this thread - the above mentioned SESAC artists are certainly not worth the money. Remove them and let them know that their "prog" value on the market has dropped considerably.

One thing is these organisations extort us poor listening public for money the artists don't see, but musicians escape the situation where I buy a CD and the quality is not up to standard. I cannot return the music and complain that it is shit like a DVD player that's faulty even though the marketing and past publications are made to make me think otherwise. So these fees are not proportional with quality and are way way too large in comparison to the listeners invovled.

In the long run the artists are digging their own financail graves but they don't know it.

The only consilation here in Dk is to wait until the music is 75 years old - then there is no fee.

[Yesspaz]

Just be glad ASCAP hasn't called you. That'd pretty much shut AM down.

[podakayne]

...well you all are familiar with the phrase.

Jim it grieves us all to know Aural Moon has become a victim of bureaucratic money-grubbing leeches who impose endless fines and fees upon the very venues that sustain of their industry. i've no doubt the artist, as well as the poets who've penned the songs get a lion-share of any fee as you've said.

and if we must be w/out a few select artist and songs so be it. God forbid, as Yesspaz stated, ASCAP begins to make noise and the entire library falls prey, i vote to go w/out a few select artist.

extortion, indeed, rick— and how completely negligent to not have a listing of artist or at least a place to enter a group name, song title and have it checked against a data base. what a crock of @%*$!

still hanging w/the Moon though Jim
poda

[progdirjim(Admin)]

OK, I've done a lot of research on this and can reassure everyone that we're not going to close down Aural Moon over this. It's too much information to relate at this point, but I am now a genius in regards to public performance copyrights and digital transmission of said content.

The short story is that SESAC has a different business model than ASCAP and BMI, which results in exorbitant fees for very little content. The converse is true with ASCAP and BMI.

For now, Alan Parsons and Mannheim are gone. But the rest of the Aural Moon library should stay mostly intact.

Originally posted by progdirjim
OK, I've done a lot of research on this and can reassure everyone that we're not going to close down Aural Moon over this. It's too much information to relate at this point, but I am now a genius in regards to public performance copyrights and digital transmission of said content.

The short story is that SESAC has a different business model than ASCAP and BMI, which results in exorbitant fees for very little content. The converse is true with ASCAP and BMI.

For now, Alan Parsons and Mannheim are gone. But the rest of the Aural Moon library should stay mostly intact.

What would we do without you Jim?

Bless you!!!!!!

[dinosaur]

Yes, Jim. What KW said...bless you!
I hope the red tape doesn't bury the station.
So far, not a great loss.
If it gets worse, I hope that we loyal mooners will be able to help devise some creative solution.

[Bob Lentil]

Originally posted by progdirjim
It's too much information to relate at this point, but I am now a genius in regards to public performance copyrights and digital transmission of said content.

I am strongly tempted to immortalize this quotation in my signature, as it is the best sentence that has ever graced the AM boards.

[Yesspaz]

To be honest, I'm not a fan of Alan Parsons or Steamroller anyway. Their loss.

[Rick and Roll]

All it took was a TURN OF A FRIENDLY CARD to remove the songs. Oh the GAMES PEOPLE PLAY! I hope I don't BREAKDOWN in the middle and lose my thread. At the very least, DON'T LET IT SHOW!

Since I can't hear any APP on the Moon, I'll have to perform a little STEREOTOMY. Or stack my records in a PYRAMID.

Oh well, SOME OTHER TIME perhaps!

[podakayne]

and Jim my/our ever faithful/grateful thanks for your diligence in this matter, as we will be listening intently for more Tales of Mystery and Imagination...or not


poda

p.s. as for SESAC...let's all say it!..."I wouldn't wanna....I wouldn't wanna be like you, no, No!...i would not want to be like you...."

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally posted by Keith Waye
What would we do without you Jim?

Bless you!!!!!!

Sit around and listen to bad 80s rock, likely.

Jim: some time, when both of us has too much free time, perhaps you could give me a precis on the ins and outs.

And maybe an ASCAP subscription might be in order as well...

Roger -Dot- Lee, just thinkin' out loud. Again.