Looking for advice...Home Computer Instrument Recording???

[Andyyyy]

Originally Posted by kirk

hey guys-
...
the main reason to go to tape, is the "warmth factor" some perceive
as being better from tape saturation. some claim that digital sounds cold
(mainly the guys w/ huge studio equipment investment).
it's roughly the equivolent of vinyl vs. cds.
otherwise, there's no advantage of tape over digital.
both can be played into live, left as raw as desired.

I never bought into the tape thing, I don't care for the hiss either. As far as vinyl vs digital, I have done many A/B tests and found that it's all in the mastering. Listen to some older ELP LPs, then listen to the CDs. That's an example of the labels stepping in and telling the engineers (back when the medium was new) to master the music to be bright so as to seem clear. Well, what that did was cause listener fatigue. Over the years, it snuck up on me. I lost interest in my ELP CDs. Then one day I was playing ELP vinyl. and woa! It wasn't the music that lost my interest. It's how it sounded! This was an extreme difference, many other CDs were less different. I bought Stravinsky's Firebird CD and a direct to disc record from 1978 (which was also recorded digitally). There was hardly any difference. Matter of fact, I prefer the CD. The record seemed to have dust, and that bothered me. When I played the CD, the "dust" turned out to be the musicians' chairs creeking! But the dynamics sounded better on the CD also.

Originally Posted by kirk, who says

i personally use pres and amps that contain Ax7 tubes to warm
the sound, a common trick these days.

Ah, intentional distortion! What's funny here, is that the distortion for tubes (or valves, as our Brit buds call them) is higher than for solid state. But tubes distort even order harmonics, while transistors don't. Or ears tolerate even order harmonic distortion better than the distortion all over the place of solid state devices.

Kirk, have you discovered the formula: Klipsch + tubes = euphoria?

Originally Posted by kirk, who again says

sharc- i'm starting to do 5.1 mixes...i'm going to need a test subject!

kirk

I can't say I heard a 5.1 (other than for special effects) recoring I liked. You are either placed in the middle of the band or the orchestra hall. When I have been at concerts, the band was always to the front of me, so to me, 2 channel is the more realistic presentation. But, I suppose I am subject to be changed if I hear the right mix...

Andy

[teermin8r]

Buy an Apple computer and get iLife 6. Garageband can do anything.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/

[roger]

while I'm a huge mac fan, my complaints about Garageband are that it can't deal with time signature and tempo changes. at least this is the case in GB 2. I haven't upgraded to GB 3 yet. did they make this possible?
I've thought about moving up to Logic Express, because without the ability to do meter changes, GB just won't cut it... it's prog, after all!

[kirk]

good point roger! IMO- garageband is great for non-musicians, kids,
hobbyists to do music-like production, background for websites, ect.


Logic is a great choice. it's upgradable as need be, the efx are
incredible, unique to the program.
the user custom defines the program (environments) to suit.

you qualify for educational discounts-
(stupid teachers get all the breaks,eh? )

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...utingpage.html

p e a c e

kirk

[roger]

yeah, I'd get a discount, and the price is very good, but it'll have to wait until the divorce is over....

[yorksrvc]

update to my progress......OK,bought a Yamaha E303 keyboard (I like), some stands, cords, an Audix OM2 mic, Gear Box Line 6 Monkey Hardware w/ Live Lite 4. I just upgraded to Ableton Live 5. I already have an Ibanez Acoustic guitar, a Ritchie Sambora model Stratocaster and a Fender Jazz bass. I'M BROKE and in trouble. Anyway, I'm overwhelmed with the reality of my need to learn, what the heck I'm doing. I'm doing allot of reading and tutorials with some interface. I really want to do all I need on the front end, so I can enjoy the back end. (nothing dirty here) What little human interface I've had has shown me that 2 MIDI notes sure can do allot. I played my acoutic with a touch of flange and reverb......it was sweet sounding. I've done a couple of drum patterns......and they all sucked. I'm having problems syncing my audio recordings......SO, as I said, I've resorted to the learning path first. Any familiararity of Live 5 advice will be appreciated. PLEASE!!! NO, it SUCKS!! comments. I don't think I could take the financial disappointment. I was VERY impressed with the program.

[kirk]

wow..."the journey of a thousand steps" has begun.

there's no magic bullet, no "decrapinator" plugin.
you have to learn to work within your limits, be happy w/ one phase,
move to the next. it's not easy. if it were, everyone would be doing it.
after you've become adept w/ the software, you're still only as good as
your talent and artistic vision takes you.
i had the ableton demo for awhile, couldn't get my head around it.
since this is your entry point, maybe it'll be different for you.

tip #1- record drums in midi, not audio. quantize the track
to taste. the quantize function aligns the notes to the nearest
chosen resolution, usually quarter notes to triple 32nds.

have fun, be patient, don't be afraid to experiment. they all have
"undo" buttons. above all-leave the credit card at home if you visit
guitar center's pro audio/keys dept.

p e a c e

kirk

[yorksrvc]

Kirk, Based on what I'm seeing and doing......YOU are RIGHT ON, Sir!! Ya know, I kinda rushed into putting my first thoughts down, last night. I did a drum midi, acoustic rhythm, 2 keyboard chord patterns and a lead guitar. It was pretty cool, this song has been on my mind since the 70's........uh?....It sounded like it too. Anyway, I will keep working with this first song section until I like it....AND.....I get used to playing my guitars again. I haven't played on ANY regular basis since 1978. Today I worked with my 4 yr. old g-daughter and recorded her singing over midi samples. It was good practice for me and more familiarization with the program. This is now and is going to keep on getting more inspiring. I'm having FUN....again. So, thanks for the advice and keep the tips flowing. Your input has been much appreciated. Thanks, Rob

[kirk]

Originally Posted by yorksrvc

this song has been on my mind since the 70's........uh?....It sounded like it too.

"tales of the jellybean frog"?

y'know rob, i wouldn't have started you off w/ableton live.
it's a great program, originally conceived as a DJ aid, allowing them
to insert parts on the fly, during performance (hence the "live").

your call, but i think it'd go much faster for you if you used a
program that functions more in the traditional "tape machine" sense,
w/ heavier editing capabilities. the learning curve's much smaller.
there's a free 8 track version of acid at www.acidplanet.com.
the miracle of this program is the way it auto-syncs "acidized" files.
you merely line up the tabs, and you're in sync.
there's also a free DL of a monthly "8pack" to experiment on.

it wouldn't be much of a diversion to check it out, and i have a feeling
you'll be glad you did.

kirk

[yorksrvc]

Kirk....don't get me all upset now.....I "ignorantly" spent all this $$ on Live 5, so......it better do what I want as I'm now forced to use it. Having said that, I will look into Acid Planet. What I'm finding with Live 5 is that much of the program is effects, so after with playing with all that now, I can go back and focus on what I need. A guy at work told me to watch my mixing, due to the different outcome on different playing devices. He was right! I mixed my one project through my Tone Port and headphones, then played it back through my computer. BIG DIFFERENCE!! Too much bass, too much effects on some tracks, etc. .......Hey! Bottom line..it's fun! I am realizing my playing limitations too. I've got to get back up to par, so it's instrument practice for me as well. It's all good!!! I guess my biggest problem is all the excitement I have about it...........it's hard to contain and thus, I create my own frustrations. BUT!!! AGAIN!!! It's all good and I get allot of satisfaction from it too. Keep the advice and insight coming......much appreciated.

[kirk]

Originally Posted by yorksrvc

I "ignorantly" spent all this $$ on Live 5,

A guy at work told me to watch my mixing, due to the different outcome on different playing devices.

for starters, those efx are VST and/or DXi, so they're compatible w/
any windows based program, including acid and sonar as of the latest versions.
that alone makes it worth having.
the programs profile efx in the system, make them available.

re:mixing- how we watch our mixing is called monitoring.
the mix is only as good as what we listen w/.
wait until you take the mix to your car stereo!

even upper end $200+ headphones are not accurate for mixing.
commercial stereo speakers are "colorized" or enhanced at
certain frequencies, so ditto. it is nice to monitor final mixes on
home speakers, so you can tell what the listeners will hear.
you're eventually going to need a pair of nearfields.
there's some decent ones under $200 if you put in the research.
i started w/ yorkville ysm1s, a steal at the price-
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/YORKVILL..._MON_EACH.html

i recently invested in a pair of these-
http://www.mackie.com/products/studi...ors/index.html
..the 824's on the L. listening to my older mixes, i wish i'd of made
the move sooner.

i can relate to finding musical limitations. i push myself whenever
i begin to feel comfortable. in the process, i've leaned percussion,
the flute, and now i'm sputtering into the chapman stick.

one cool thing that's happened, is the advent of soft synths.
you can add the arturia moogs, garritan strings for around $200,
as compared to buying hardware versions, control them w/ a lowend
midi keyboard. http://www.arturia.com/en/minimoog/minimoogv.php

i have these, and i'm in love w/ the absynth 3, a sound designer's dream.
http://www.arbitermt.co.uk/ni/products/absynth3.htm

kirk