A Moonies Band ?

[Yesspaz]

I said I could add vocals if no one else wanted to do them. I'm not a great singer by any definition (although I'm probably better than a lot of prog vocalists).

If there's someone else chomping to play bass, that's fine with me. I would need a technical genius to help me record anyway. But if someone has to double up and play like, 3 instruments, that's not cool. No offense to roger, but let's involve a lot of people. This is for fun, right? We're not trying to get a record deal?

[kirk]

hi spaz~ it's not a miracle, but you will have to invest a few
$$, at the very least buy a DI box, or some higher end
software w/ built in compression.
recording vocs or bass is the same basic deal,
you have to get the sound into the computer.
--------------------------------------------
the 1st order of business is checking off who
has the ability to record sound into the computer,
who needs assistance.
don't think anything of it, i know many seasoned
old school pros that can't get their heads around it...
say no more...he may be lurking....

other factors, we have no idea of individual skill levels.
maybe we could have all involved do a riff or 2...
show yer chops?
that'd be a good time to make adjustments,
have the others comment on how the sounds translate to
a variety of speakers before recording tracks.

moses is correct, placing drums as an afterthought is
very difficult. being a keyboard-based writer, i usually
work to a "click track", which functions like a metronome.
it keeps the beat, allows for the drums to added at any
point in the tune. it also saves the producer's ears.

from experience (also from playing flute), the quieter
instruments, vocs would be the best place to start.
this establishes the instrument, where it may have a difficult
time "punching through" after everything's going.

if we need a vocal blast to get this rolling, a good way to do it
is to use single piano notes to place the vocs.
the piano works as a marker, the melody's translated to lyrics and replaced later.
experienced vocalists "la-la" scratch vocs,
but for the less experienced, singing over piano notes
helps to keep them in pitch (i also have auto-tune, pitch correction software)
....never use it

i agree w/ spaz, it'd be cool to include some of our
non-musicians, on things like contributing to lyrics.

k

[moses]

Another possible approach would be to start with the drums. Once a groove is laid down, either add your melody instrument first and build backing tracks down from there, or add your rhythm instruments first and build up to the melody.

Starting with drums makes it easy in the short term... No worries about what key to play in. Got a favorite time signature?

[Elric68]

I've read your post Moses and I guess you'll have to effect my parts yourself cuz' I have no amp simulator and not even any amp simulation software.

I have some ideas I could throw on a recording and all of you could choose the best of them or know what we can do with them. How do I put them in download on Rifftrader ?

[kirk]

'allo elric- not to worry, i have amp sims and efx out
the proverbial ying yang.
if you have a small practice amp and a mic,
want to record direct, i'll send you instructions.
there's a few tricks that help the sound greatly.

here's a resource for such things-
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/win95/GUITAR/

some things are freeware, some shareware on the
honor system, some 30 day demos.
--------------------------------------------------------

i setup a rifftrader account for the project-
go to www.rifftrader.com
rifferX/members/lockbox

user-auralmoon
psw-moonies

to avoid confusion,everyone can use the
administration password/user.
i don't *think* it reads IPs, but if you can't get in,
i'll issue individual passwords.

files usually can be DL'd from the main, bypassing the
DL page(R click "save target as.."on the PC)

upload is at the top of the screen.
be patient after clicking upload(especially you dialup users)
don't navigate away from the page or open other programs.

let me know how it goes.

k

[Yesspaz]

If this is gonna cost me $, you'll have to count me out then. I'm broke, living off loans until I graduate and get a job.

FWIW, the standard analog way of doing things is drums, bass, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, keys, misc. instruments, vox. In the computer age it's probably easier to do other ways.

and Kirk, remember that though you've been doing this a while, we're novices!

And "favorite time signature?" "lyrics" etc. - how about we simply do a short, straight-ahead 4/4 rock instrumental first. No need to tackle an epic with time changes and stuff only to run into technical difficulties. Let's make sure we can actually DO this before we attempt to do a masterpiece. "FUN" is the word. No need to try to figure out skill levels and such right now. I say use the KISS method for now - Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Of course, my involvement depends on time and $.

Finally, with the issue of lyrics, We're a diverse group of people from different continents, cultures, political views, religious views, and social views. This should be a project that brings us together. I wouldn't want to be a part of a project that bashed Christianity, or promoted the legalization of marijuana anymore than someone else my not want play on a song that's anti-marijuana or pro-Christianity. So, may I suggest we don't get political, religious, or even ideological in this song-writing. Keep it, ya know, "fun" and "friendly." Just my two cents.

Spaz out.

[kirk]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
[b] Kirk, remember that though you've been doing this a while, we're novices! [/B

LOL all this technical jargon like "find the mic in on
your soundcard".

look..you listen to mp3s on your computer.
that means all the connections are good to go.
"your soundcard is working w/ the speakers to make noise".

now, you need to tap in. (on a PC) the soundcard is
on the backside of the computer tower, one of the vertical
slots at the bottom. unless you have a terrible soundcard,
you'll see jacks. the big ones w/ pin connections are midi
in/outs to connect to a keyboard.
one, usually chrome plated, a 1/8 jack(same size as portable
cd player headphones) will say "mic in".
for a vocal mic w/ a 1/4 in plug (guitar cord sized),
you'll need an adapter ($2 at radio shack). plug in a mic.

in system/multimedia or accessories/entertainment in the program list,
you'll find volume controls.

next, you'll need a way to "capture" the sound,
make it into a .wav file, so you can send it to rifftrader.

think of a sequencer exactly the same way as a tape recorder.
that's all it is, a digital representation of a tape recorder,
w/all the same controls, FF, rewind, record ect.

moses' suggestion of the free audacity program is a good one,
see the link on the previous page, download it.

under "options/audio", you should see the name of your soundcard in a dropdown list.
choose it, or move it to the top, whichever you're instructed to do.

arm a track for recording. speak into the mic.
if all's well, the vu meters will jump.

that's as simple as it gets.

oh, and i guess my "nuke the gay whales" idea's out, eh?

k

[Rick and Roll]

a Godspeed type tune? You should be able to record that in a few hours.....everyone could pick a note, we'll sustain it for 45 seconds, and build from there...

oh sorry that's not helping...

[Elric68]

Ok I've found a way to effect my tracks with an amp simulator (ReValver) and to record them through a recorder that I connect instead of my speakers. That way, the sound is clean and there are no noises around. After that, I only have to convert the .wav files to mp3.

Now I can put some of my ideas on the Rifftrader account that Kirk has given us, and you all can download them. I'm afraid nothing is interesting, though, cause I have no musical creativity. The 1st sample is already on the account but I guess it's not worth anything. Download it and tell me. I believe I've heard it somewhere and I'm not sure it isn't an existing song already. Well, you just tell me

If my creations are no good, someone please begin to record something and put it on the Rifftrader account.

If nothing of all this is good, I suggest that our keyboardist begins to record something, that way that'll be easier for me (and probably for some of you) to play something over it.

It's time to begin that project while I still have a computer to do it. In a few months, I will leave my home for a flat and have no CPU to record, except 1 week end per month, when my studies will allow me some spare time. Sorry for bothering you with that but I'd like at least to have even a little part of a song before leaving ...

Thanks to all of you, who decided to help me in that project, and sorry for hurrying you up.

[kirk]

sorry for not responding sooner, thurs.& fri. are the days off,
out of the studio.

well, that's a start! you made the guitar/computer connection,
a good thing. Revalver's a cool amp sim eh?
the price is certainly good

as we mentioned, it's difficult to match drums to existing
tracks, but this gives us a picture of what you're thinking.

i find that a concept is a good place to start.
last night i thought "we need a basic prog tune".
then, "why not "basic" as a theme"?

i'm thinking an ambience for a starter, vocs coming in
over top-

"basic as-----------------,
basic as--------------------,
basic as a human need
basic as the air we breathe"

maybe introduce the bass in the 2nd line, a pause
after the words, drums and guitar comes in...
i'll place the vocs w/ a melody piano line
over a scratch drum. start simple, build as we go.

taking suggestions for the 1st 2 lines in the lyric!
anyone's welcome to join in.
if you have the winning line, you're in the credits.

what say all involved?

k

[Elric68]

Well Kirk I agree, your ideas are very helpful and interesting.

Did you check my soundsample on the rifftrader account ?
Can you tell me if we can do something with it ?

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by kirk
taking suggestions for the 1st 2 lines in the lyric!
anyone's welcome to join in.

"basic as-----------------,
basic as--------------------,
basic as a human need
basic as the air we breathe"

Ok, I reworked it a bit:


"Basic as lack and greed.
Basically we don’t care.
Basic as human need.
Basic as the want of air."

I dropped the "a" in the third line and redid the last line. Notice the juxtoposition of "need" and "want" in that couplet. Now, I twisted "basic" to "basically" in the second line. "Need" has many definitions, but using it as "essential (n.)" and "poverty" you get a good bit of synonym play with "need," "want," and "lack." The first couplet says a lot, I think, about the desire to help eliminate poverty and the basic problem that we're all greedy - we want SOMEONE ELSE to end poverty. Maybe the goverment, maybe rich philanthropists, but we're never quick to sacrifice of ourselves - myself included. So anyway, that's what I did with it....


PS. If "Nuke" were a name that'd be a good name for a punk band. "Please welcome to Club 40, Nuke the Gay Whale."

[progdirjim(Admin)]

back to basics is the cry
there's no need to ponder why
basic as a human need
basic as the air we breathe

as another alternative. We're going to need an arbiter of lyrics, so they go in one direction. Since Kirk started them, I suggest he.

[Elric68]

I prefer your suggestion progdirjim, but I'm no arbiter, let Kirk choose. I like that one cause there are cries included in it and because crying is one of the most basic things we do when we need something we can't have. We cry when we desire things we can't reach, we cry when we love someone we can't have, we cry when we are alone, and of course the 1st thing we do when we come to life is crying: the only thing that a new-born baby knows is how to cry. Considering this I'd say it's the most basic thing we can do so I found interesting to include it in the 1st verse (also because it marks our beginning as human beings it has probably to be at the beginning of the song). That's just my point of view, I'll let you choose which one you prefer.

Don't forget to download and listen my 1st sample on the rifftrader account so that I can improve it if needed, or change what I need to change, or forget it and try something else.
I thought it as an intro but it can be something else like a break.

Kirk is the most experienced in that I believe, so I'd gladly have his point of view about that sample, but I need the point of view of you all.

[Rick and Roll]

A newborn also knows how to make potty.


One off the top of my head, trying to incorporate the ideas:

A basic need for one to cry
Yet too ashamed to even try
It's as basic as the air we breathe
and every other human need

[kirk]

hey all- that "studio hell" i was referring to was my old trusty mackie mixer going belly up.
tough diagnosis, there's not much in a mixer to go wrong...except the power supply.

i just purchased this bad boy- http://www.mackie.com/products/cfx16mkii/index.html
along w/ a monster power supply conditioner.

as soon as i have the religion-losing rewire done,
i'll get that melody up on rifftrader. i'm thinking saturday.

jim- all good suggestions, but you're closer to the timing
and cadence i'm thinking of.

elric- i listened yesterday. it seems familiar to me also.
no value judgement, but w/o a beat, i just wouldn't have
a clue as to what to do w/ it at this point.
let's see where this "basic" idea goes.

k

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally posted by kirk


jim- all good suggestions, but you're closer to the timing
and cadence i'm thinking of.

k

well, I'm a drummer. If I can't get timing and cadence right, time to hang up the sticks (to mix a metaphor)

[Wojtek]

If you need material, I have 3 albums (well 2 and a half) recorded for fun a few years ago. I think they're good. The only thing to do is to replace midi or vsti guitars, drums, bass, flutes etc. with real instruments.

The drawback is that all of them are concepts situated in given style according to the feel, message and atmosphere.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Wojtek
If you need material, I have 3 albums (well 2 and a half) recorded for fun a few years ago. I think they're good. The only thing to do is to replace midi or vsti guitars, drums, bass, flutes etc. with real instruments.

The drawback is that all of them are concepts situated in given style according to the feel, message and atmosphere.

Maybe you could play them on the Moonie show?

[Wojtek]

Rick, in all honesty, I can't .
Two main reasons:
- 'not real instruments' (apart from keyboard, symphonic aspect) and bad mix make this not a good thing to publicate in such state.
- I'd like to release them as a professional thing. One album is being prepared.

If it's 'converted' into good sound with real instruments then surely AM will be the first place for it to be played.