ENOUGH! Too many program announcements!

[VAXman(Admin)]

Subject says it all.

This morning I heard one for Gnosis. Then Eclipse from DSotM (roughly 2 minute song) and then a BrainRock promo.

The short 15 to 20 second station announcements every 6 or so songs was OK but these program announcements are too many and too few songs between (not to mention they're just outright obnoxious to boot).

I'd bet these promos consume more "air time" during the week than the shows themselves. I'd rather hear Rome, Mr. 10% and Mundus Incompertus ad nauseum over these promos ad nauseum.

[Eating Lemur]

Perhaps the positioning of promotions ought to be more strategically planned. Having too many too often not only bothers some users but also generates diminishing returns; one or two well-placed promos should do more to get people to tune in than other subsequent ads combined.

Also, special programming can be viewed on the main site, but we can always create a special page just for that and refer listeners to it. That way they can check out promos on-site at their leisure.

I hope that the number of Braindead.......sorry Rock.... promos is because it's a new show and they will diminish as it gets established. The Gnosis (Ah That's nice!) ad is beginning to get on my proverbial wick.

Less promos, more music!

[kevishev]

Originally posted by VAXman
Subject says it all.

I'd bet these promos consume more "air time" during the week than the shows themselves. I'd rather hear Rome, Mr. 10% and Mundus Incompertus ad nauseum over these promos ad nauseum.

I hate to tell you this guys.....but this thread is probably just the thing the program directors want to see. Now that they know the promos are being heard and reacted to, we'll probably hear more of them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if we ignore the promos, maybe they'll go away....or at least be played at a minimum.

Kev

[Rick and Roll]

I guess I really don't listen enough. The opportunity for me to listen to the Moon has lessened as of late.

And if you're incontinent like me, the breaks are welcome.

While I agree with kev about the advertising piece, let me go officially on the record to say except for Gnosis, I don't see a lot of interesting programming anymore.

That takes up more air time than the promos......

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I guess I really don't listen enough.

Bingo. As someone who got his BS in Mass Media Communication and worked in radio for four years before being bought by Conglomerate Evil Radio Empire USA and replaced by a satellite feed, I think I can respond with a "somewhat" intelligent explanation . Rick said he doesn't listen enough to truly be annoyed. Obviously, people who listen for hours each day will hear these things repeated a lot, but folks who don't get to listen much might not. That is the rationale. A programmer knows he's got the regulars. He want's to make sure EVERYONE knows. It's is called "the Parsimony Principle" in TV and radio, which is a long thing to explain, but I'll do it if anyone cares to read it (just let me know).

Secondly, due to the parsimony principle, one thing consumers (people who listen, myself included) don't realize is that they play a lot less than is percieved. The average on AM to the best of my knowledge is that the computer inserts a promo, from a seperate folder than the music, once every six or seven songs. A nice example of how this happens is that occasionally people call radio stations asking them to "quit playing Song X to death! I hear it three times a day!" Yet, often, they are shocked to be told the station dropped the song two weeks ago! You know that initial 2 minute announcement about BrainRock, the one telling you to buy headphones that look like earmuffs? It's been off the station for five days (as of July 4th), but I'll bet many of you could have sworn that you heard it three times already today. That's the way the Parsimony Principle works. Ya'll probably don't realize it, buy AM plays about 56 to 57 minutes of music per hour, as opposed to the 40 to 45 on broadcast radio.

But, occasionally I've noticed that 4 or 5 promos will play in a row. I don't know why (ask Avian), but I agree that that is quite annoying.

While I can't speak for the other shows, I plan on changing my promos every week, promoting that week's show. I have a standard promotional bed I made which is the "bookends" of the promo, and I'll change out the song's it's promoting each week. It is exactly 60 seconds long. Right now there are four BrainRock promos on AM (3 for the week's show and one general one announcing the playtimes). Yes, there are a lot of BrainRock ones because it's a new show, and this will decrease (on my end anyway) once the show is firmly in people's minds. The promoting of the week's show will drop from 3 to 1 or 2, depending on the week. I'm also playing with some 30 second spot ideas instead of 60.

In fact, the ideal is to have many, many, many more promos, about 50, in fact (for the whole station, not for BrainRock). But the frequency doesn't change. Right now there are a total of 12 promos and station IDs. They repeat "so often." Increase that number to 50, but the frequency of plays is the same, and you hear each one much less. Secondly, you change about 10 a month (Add ten, delete ten). The average listener never notices what ten are gone, but then one day they just notice that a certain one is suddenly gone.

Also, and this may get me in trouble from bosses, but I think they need to be short. AM isn't corporate radio charging for airtime, so the promos and IDs don't have to be exactly 30 sec or 60 sec, I do think 60 should be max.

So, while I can't speak for Avian, I doubt very seriously that promos will stop. But I do think the frequency of how often they play could be cut in a third or even half. But that's an Avian decision.


Does that make any sense? Do you care? Do you just want them to stop, or would you rather they change frequently enough you never got too sick of one?




Yesspaz, a man with no actual power to do anything one way or the other, signing off...

Sorry Spaz.....could you repeat that please?

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
A programmer knows he's got the regulars. He want's to make sure EVERYONE knows. It's is called "the Parsimony Principle" in TV and radio, which is a long thing to explain, but I'll do it if anyone cares to read it (just let me know).

Alliteration, repetition, regurgitation... no mater how you spell it, it's repeated. It's too much! Especially to a captive and regular audience like here on the moon. Let me put it into terms you'll understand: Preaching to the Choir. You didn't like it very much that Rome played incessantly. Well, it least it doesn't make my ears bleed like these promos with all the appeal of an AM/FM radio car dealer commercial.

When I came to the moon I liked it because it was like a prog juke box. Make a request and listen. Now I'm bombarded with commercials. I *loathe* commercial radio.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by VAXman
Now I'm bombarded with commercials.

Bombarded? I find that word a littel strong. The ratio of songs to non-songs on AM is sooooooooo low.

You've got a point about preaching to the choir there VAX. To be clear, I wasn't making a case for more "minutes per hour" of promos, but more promos in number, so that they repeat less frequently. I also support decreasing the frequency the promos play. So what I'm saying, VAX, is that I agree with you, but not as extremely. My opinion, in short:

AM needs promos.
There should be more in number than the 12 we have.
They should be limited to 60 seconds max.
They should play less frequently, perhaps one promo every ten songs.
They should be replaced on a regular basis so that they don't get too old.


But still, as is, there's 55-58 minutes of music per hour. That's pretty darned good if you ask me.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
Rick said he doesn't listen enough to truly be annoyed.

No, Rick said he doesn't listen enough to notice. He turns down the sound during the promos anyway if he's heard them.

And Rick is restating his hope to hear diverse and interesting programming.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
No, Rick said he doesn't listen enough to notice. He turns down the sound during the promos anyway if he's heard them.

Oh, my bad. Well, I got the don't listen enough part right

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
And Rick is restating his hope to hear diverse and interesting programming.

I hope to have quite a variety on my show, but all falling under the "artsy-farsty" umbrealla. But I doubt very seriously every one will like every song. I promise I'll do my best!

Someone said:
"You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

[roger]

Originally posted by Yesspaz Someone said:
"You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

P.T. Barnum, I think.

[prythm]

I didn’t think I'd complain since I didn't want to appear ungrateful for such a great site. If the promos were used to generate money I would be much less critical. I don’t see a need for them. Maybe just the one that directs you to go to the site to check out the great programming. Just curious, don’t people have to go to the web site first (at least once) before they listen? Station IDs are understandable also.

This is why I decided to amend this post. The other day one of my favorite classics came on, the awesome chords of “Watcher of the Skies”, and all I can think of is… ‘ahhhhhhh .. That’s Nice’. It’s like Aron Coplands “Meat, it’s what’s for dinner”, or Virgin Airways "Rhapsody in Blue". Please make it stop. Must purge, must purge. ….

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by prythm
The other day one of my favorite classics came on, the awesome chords of “Watcher of the Skies”, and all I can think of is… ‘ahhhhhhh .. That’s Nice’.

Great point. That used to bother me about the AM-id that has "Xanadu" in it, but I don't even notice anymore. In my opinion, having promos isn't the problem. Keeping any one promo on too long is. They need to be updated monthly. I update the BrainRock promos weekly (although the beginning and end of each promo is the same).


PS. for the record, I purposefully use music that 99.9% of progfans won't know as my beds and promo and liner music, so that that "Watcher of the Skies" thing doesn't happen on the stuff I control.