Where is all of the Dream Theater???

[kevishev]

Originally posted by John Galt
So if you ever find yourself wondering whatever happened to all the good prog that seemed so abundant many years ago, pull yourself out of the seventies, and bring yourself into the 21st century, you musically stagnating, closed-minded, middle-aged adult (or should I say... schizoid man ).

Hey John Galt! I resemble that remark!

I know I'm jumpin' in kinda late here, but It occured to me that you youngsters don't realize that back in the 70's, what we now call "Prog Music" wasn't called "Prog Music". We didn't know what it was, only that it was good. And we liked it. It seemed to go well with the consumption of controlled substances.

I go back to before FM radio stations began playing what was known at the time as "Underground" music. Stuff you wouldn't hear on regular (AM) radio. We had a local FM station (KFIG)where I grew up in Fresno, Ca. that began playing
"Underground" music on Saturday nights from 10:00 PM until midnight. They were a "Clasical" music station the rest of the time. I think it was 1971.

So, when did we start calling it "Progressive Music" anyway?

Welcome to the MOON John Galt.

Kev

[podakayne]

yeah kev...i remember back in the day—before it got labeled at all too...my sincerest thanks to TRIAD freeform radio playing 5 nights a week between the hours of 8-1am i think(it also played classical and folk music the rest of the time...who knew!), 1970-71 into the late 70s...and thank you sexy voiced Sal, where ever you are now, the dj who fueled my mind with what we now label progressive rock. making that station discovery late one nite in 1971 remains one of my best, most fond memories.

i am a dinosaur...somebody is diggin my bones


p.s. thanks Yspaz for the link

[kevishev]

Originally posted by podakayne
yeah kev...i remember back in the day....and thank you sexy voiced Sal, where ever you are now, the dj who fueled my mind with what we now label progressive rock. making that station discovery late one nite in 1971 remains one of my best, most fond memories.

Ah yes Poda, such sweet memories. I was just a barefooted punk in torn jeans and a stratocaster t-shirt. The "voice" that influenced my musical tastes was some guy by the name of "Carl" (god bless ya Carl, wherever you are). I remember Carl sounding very cool and very "mellow". His voice reminds me of the comedian Rick Wright now that I think about it.

They soon added Friday and Sunday nights to the "Underground" music shows and ran them until 2:00 AM. After about a year or so as I recall, the format was changed to all underground, all the time. I soon sported a new "KFIG" t-shirt that was festooned with a strat busting through a stone image of the station call letters. God I wish I still had that shirt!

Kev

"...so please be gentle, 'cause I'm an axe victim"

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally posted by Yesspaz
This is something I started to comment on above (no offense, Poda.), but didn't because I'd already gone long. I think one of the reasons some bands like GYBE!, Sigur Ros, The Mars Volta, and King's X aren't accepted wholesale by prog circles is because they are accepted "out there." Once a band breaks out, they're no longer "our babies" and we don't like that. This happens in almost every single genre of music. Legions of underground fans run grass roots campaigns to get their little genre bands in the mainstream, and the second that they do then can't help but feel ambivalent about it. Their excited the band is making it big(ger), but they also feel a sense of loss and elitism.

I have to jump in here. While we've been known to not include a song or two because of "over" popularity, that is not my reasons for not including King's X, for example. I just don't think King's X is prog. I like them, own 4 CDs and plan on getting more. I would see them live if they ever came to San Diego. TMV I just haven't decided on yet. Sigur Ros and GYBE I added without hesitation.

I like enough bands that the masses NEVER will, that it's OK with me when a few make it. But, you have pointed out a common phenomenon

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by progdirjim
I have to jump in here. While we've been known to not include a song or two because of "over" popularity, that is not my reasons for not including King's X, for example. I just don't think King's X is prog.

Song to song in my opinion!

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by progdirjim
I just don't think King's X is prog.

We have this same discussion in a lot of threads...Spaz mentions king's x, I say cool, Jim says they're not prog and I agree.

Spaz, King's X is one of my favorite bands. And they're not prog.

[John Galt]

Yeah I'm still here.

I haven't been able to get access to a computer for a coupla' days. When I left the thread seemed about dead. I came here with the express intent of saying, "Rick, does this mean you can't 'hang better' than me in the forums?" and forgetting all about it.

Instead it turned into a serious conversation. I really wasn't expecting that, it's nice (I could've done without the scattered insults, though - it's not fair to insult me when I can't argue back, lol). According to Dinosaur I was proud that that happened, even though it "backfired" on me. Funny.

But since everyone's being serious now and not (for the most part) going after me any more, I will attempt to be serious myself. So no exaggeration, inflammatory remarks (well, excluding the one I've already written), or propoganda, just what I think, as clearly and without deception as I can make it.

Podakayne said earlier that "to have [prog] accepted and become the music of the majority masses would kill it." I disagree. Here's why: If prog is more... I don't want to say popular... more well-known, then more people would listen to it. I know this is true because, although I don't know any prog fans (off the cp) I have had limited success marketing prog bands to a minority of people. This suggests that there is a reasonably large fraction of people who would become prog fans as a result of its "more well-known"ness. Not surprisingly, most of these people, in my limited experiences, have been musicians. Surely some of these musicians will begin playing prog rock. That means more for us! Think about it this way: If there was one progressive rock band in the world, no matter how good or amazing they were, they probably wouldn't even come close to being the best if everybody in the world was a member of a prog band (that was a serious exaggeration). Therefore my standpoint is, basically, the more the merrier.

Back to what Podakayne said. I'm assuming that by "kill it" she means water it down, make it less interesting. I don't see that happening. What I do see is Yes, Rush, and Genesis becoming fairly normal bands in the 80s. Would this have happened if prog was the music of the masses?

But the biggest reason I would like prog to be more popular (without the bad connotation) is to find an answer to the question, "If prog was mainstream, what would crazy people like us listen to?"

Now to defending myself. I'm a firm believer that the end justifies the means. When you insult someone, they tend to fight back. Rather than run the risk of being politely rejected, I decided to be radical and inflammatory. It almost didn't work. If Yesspaz hadn't reiterated and built upon my original remarks in more polite language, it probably wouldn't have. So I admit my approach may not have been appropriate in this case, however ( ) it was fun to write.

Now to prove that the first thing Dino said about me, not the second (it seems to have magically un-backfired on me, actually)
is absolutely dead-on.

Out of all the Dream Theater threads, I think this one is the best - and I'm very proud of that.

Oh, almost forgot. Yes, Kevishev, I'm sure you do resemble that remark (sorry I couldn't resist).

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by John Galt


1) "Rick, does this mean you can't 'hang better' than me in the forums?" and forgetting all about it.


2) I don't want to say popular... more well-known, then more people would listen to it.


3) Now to defending myself.


4) Out of all the Dream Theater threads, I think this one is the best - and I'm very proud of that.

Since I can't split quotes/insert comments very well, please refer to each paragraph below and match with the ones above.

1) Your obsession with me is a bit scary (lol).
2) A very astute statement, you must have been up all night thinking that one up.
3) Defending yourself? No one really cares John about that...it's the discussion of the content that is important, not how you look.
4) Hardly. The thread started by Tommy (EP) was all about the music. Unlike this one.

It is highly ironic that my show this week is somewhat mainstream. You would have a field day with some of the songs I'll play.................

Welcome back John. When I am afk for about 1/2 month soon, feel free to comment, I don't mind. Actually I'm glad you have other interests.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
Spaz mentions king's x, I say cool, Jim says they're not prog and I agree.

Pretty good summary. Sorry to even bring them up again, but I haven't listened to them in a long time and yesterday I cranked Tape Head for the first time in a while. SOOOO Good.

"I'll never hurt you.
I'll never bring you down.
I'll never kill you.
I'll always be around.
You don't know how much I hate you!"

[John Galt]

I thought we were past this "attack John" phase of the thread! Sheesh!

All right, I'm going to have to fight back now (funny, you seem to be using my tactics).

What I meant by #2, to spell it out for you, is that many people would listen to prog bands if they knew they existed. I discovered it through sheer luck. To demonstrate what I mean, I once asked a guy (a Dream Theater fan) if he knew what prog was. He said "keyboard stuff" and proceeded to tell me that DT was not prog because they weren't keyboard oriented enough. Most people just don't know. If they did....

As for #3, when you start discussing the content and stop attacking me I won't have to defend myself. At least my last comment had a coupla' paragraphs of good content stuff. Yours didn't have any! And why do you assume that I will have a field day with somewhat mainstream music? It depends on what you mean by "somewhat mainstream."

Was that a Thread started by Tommy (EP) or about the Tommy (EP)? I couldn't find either, I guess I'm not looking in the right places. Anyway, I stick to what I said.

To put some discussion of content on this post (Rick, do you want to call a truce? All this arguing is starting to work against me.), I'll go back to that popularity discussion. When I asked that one girl's dad (the former progger one) about it, he said, "that's what we listened to back then." Obviously prog wasn't the mainstream thing, so I'll take that to mean it wasn't uncommon. Ugh... I can't make this go anywhere.... I agree with whoever said that post-rock was the prog rock of the 90s. I keep seeing GY!BE popping up in this discussion. I heard some of their stuff on the college radio station and bought Yanqui U.X.O. and Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven. It's cool stuff, I didn't realize they were so popular.

[Rick and Roll]

Who's attacking you? I've not been doing that, especially in my last post. Disagreeing is not attacking.

Sorry about the Tommy thing. He was a DJ here. I didn't give you enough info.

The whole keyboard anecdote you mention is usually used by metalheads describing anything other than metal. I find that most people know...they just don't care.

GYBE pops up simply because it's a lightning rod. They're polarizing... If you can find it, check out the "rename GYBE thread".. it's a hoot.

[roger]

Originally posted by John Galt
however ( ) it was fun to write.

you keep saying that. is it still fun when people get hurt? that's what bothers me. lots of things are fun, but they're not meant to be shared.


anyway, I've really enjoyed most of this discussion, and I think the concept of the effects of popularity on a type of music and/or groups is well worth discussing. it happens all the time.

[podakayne]

see john you fit in very well here...and no one is really attacking you, your character or anything else of a personal nature...so no need for you to defend yourself. if you wanna read attacks try searching out the 'old sod threads.

you have managed to elicit a great thread (though i agree the G!YBE thread is a real hoot too)...we obviously like the stimuli you provided...you held your own IMHO, not that i doubted that from the first post...there's good people here and some great debates...occasionally they may get heated or harsh but even then the participants dont hold grudges...i like that, civil disagreement...what a concept.

oh i like how you took my point to the other side...like better your question: "If prog was mainstream, what would crazy people like us listen to?" LOL, how true, how true...besides i like my snobbery everyone should have something don't you think?

poda

[kevishev]

Originally posted by John Galt
Oh, almost forgot. Yes, Kevishev, I'm sure you do resemble that remark (sorry I couldn't resist).

The only reason I'm not taking any offense to all this dear John, is because I know all too well that YOU will be an old fucker like me someday. Just like I know there'll be some smart-assed punk like you around to remind you about it too!

And I mean that in the friendliest possible way. No, I'm serious. You kinda remind me of myself at your age....... Maybe you're the one that should be offended.......

Kev

ps: You gotta forgive Rickandroll. He likes RJ Dio...

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally posted by kevishev
[b]The only reason I'm not taking any offense to all this dear John, is because I know all too well that YOU will be an old fucker like me someday.

Especially like today... today you're an official old fart!

[ThreeGonads]

Sorry I'm late to this fine discussion

Dream T, 90% of it is noise. I'm sure some of it elevates above this rating, but the pain of getting to it is too much to bear. Rating : PASS

Now for a real stench sniff some Enchant.

Ok, now that you're done puking.......


And any group that names itself after the male member, well, what can I say, you'd have to be a tool to like them.

Kid, yeah , you the one that started the thread, when you grow up, maybe you'll realize that after Michael Jackson and B Spears, there is no other music.

Party On Poopers.

Dream Theater?????????

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg gggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's better. Now to get back to some Opeth......

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally posted by Keith Waye
Dream Theater?????????

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg gggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's better. Now to get back to some Opeth......

Keithie, old shoe, I think you may have stated my feelings about Dream Theater AND John Galt much more eloquently than I possibly could have.

There are times I'm sad that I don't have as much time to devote to the forums as I used to.

And then there's threads like this.

If anything AT ALL beneficial has come out of this spewage, it's the impetus for me to get off my duff and learn the forum software. I found a couple of nice little bits of functionality with which to torment the unwise and preliterate. Now I just have to get the time and motivation to put them to good use. Shame I didn't take the time to discover it before Olde Sod annoyed me.

Does ANYONE know what demons possess customers of Southwestern Bell to become such cretinous chowderheads? I seem to recall that both Olde Sod and Our Favorite Overrequester were BOTH from that besotted ISP.

Roger -Dot- Lee, busy for the moment, but fed up enough to actually act.

[roger]

Originally posted by Roger Lee
I found a couple of nice little bits of functionality with which to torment the unwise and preliterate.

you going to share?

or are these "features" just for the powerful?...

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally posted by roger
you going to share?

or are these "features" just for the powerful?...

Alas, unless you happen to be in possession of The Keys(TM), the ignition won't turn, and the fires won't light.

But what I CAN tell you is that there is now a user group called 'Chowderheads'. I'd add the likes of Old Sod as well, but I've already edited his user account to unusability, so there would be no point.

Roger -Dot- Lee, All Your Base Are Belong To Us! HA HA Hack