Where is all of the Dream Theater???

[John Galt]

On a whim I thought I would see what all Dream Theater songs were on this site's list. Much to my surprise I found there were only seven songs!

I thought, "no, that can't be right, maybe they just don't have much newer stuff." So I looked up Spock's Beard, and found a whopping 85 songs.

I have a Spock's Beard CD (V), and while it has its good parts, it has nothing on any of my DT CDs.

So I am forced to conclude that you don't have much because of their heavy metal leanings, which brings me back to a thought I've had many times before. How can people musically flexible enough to listen to prog be incapable of enjoying heavy metal? It makes no sense to me. Maybe you older people have some deeply ingrained metal-phobia. It would take no less to deny the greatness of Scenes From A Memory (or for that matter The Great Debate, or Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence, or Honor Thy Father, or Octavarium, etc.). Do you realize that Dream Theater is the most popular progressive rock band among teenagers?

Perhaps the reason prog has been dwindling the past 2 or 3 decades is that any new band, no matter how talented, with a different sound isn't accepted by the prog community. Then most of the other bands are labeled derisive. A few manage to toe the line (The Flower Kings), but don't have anything to offer younger listeners.

And lest you dismiss me as a know-nothing teenager, I must tell you I didn't stumble onto progressive rock after listening to Dream Theater or TOOL like most young proggers (to tell you the truth, I don't know any "young proggers" besides myself, but I know they exist, if only because they post stuff sometimes), but instead went through my dad's 90125 tape, and another Yes song on a computer game (Homeworld), and the good things my dad said about Rush (no tapes, though ). I now enjoy King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Peter Gabriel Genesis, Pink Floyd, and many other bands (finally managed to appreciate Tales From Topographic Oceans a coupla' months ago, took forever).

So if you ever find yourself wondering whatever happened to all the good prog that seemed so abundant many years ago, pull yourself out of the seventies, and bring yourself into the 21st century, you musically stagnating, closed-minded, middle-aged adult (or should I say... schizoid man ).

Just in case you wanted a teenager's point of view on your site.

[roger]

Originally posted by John Galt
you musically stagnating, closed-minded, middle-aged adult (or should I say... schizoid man ).

welcome, John.

did you do a search of the forums for Dream Theater? there's been a lot of discussion about them here.

ah, youth...

[Bob Lentil]

Hmm. . . I just checked my calendar, and I wasn't expecting this thread until next week.

Thanks for your post, John. We need these every once in a while to keep things interesting. Dream Theater discussions always seem to pull people out of the woodwork.

[Rick and Roll]

Before we start replying in a visceral vein I would like a crack at this.

Hi John, it's good to see you've at least found Aural Moon worth the trouble to sample. It's appreciated. I'm a DJ here, and my favorite music is heavy music and prog.

Let me tell you my personal feelings about Dream Theater. I have seen them five times. I have six of their CD's. When you make a statement like "maybe they don't have much newer stuff", maybe you do not know the band that well.

I am all for expressing opinion. And contrary to what others may think, I am open-minded. But I do not like to be lectured, nor do I enjoy being pigeon-holed into a category.

I've seen, heard, and enjoyed more true metal than you ever will in your lifetime. Dream Theater is not true metal. I really thought they were something at first, but as time passes, I realize most of it is a wankfest. I can still enjoy more of "Awake" and about 20-30 percent of the other records, but the band is limited in it's shelf-life. They're almost TOO talented.

The reverence to Dream Theater makes me ill. they're a very good band that has put out some good music. They're not deities.

You need to realize that there is a lot of heavy music on the Moon. You are being self-limiting by professing a reverence to what I consider an regular band.

Liquid Tension Experiment, Transatlantic, OSI, and any other Mike Portnoy-involved projects - all on the Moon. Oh by the way, Mike Portnoy is Dream Theater's drummer.

And Mike Portnoy is a collaborator and great friend of Neal Morse, who was the force behing Spock's Beard. I seriously doubt that Portnoy thinks his DT records "have something on Spock's Beard".

Oh and Porcupine Tree is more popular now than Dream Theater, my friend. And us fogies love Porcupine Tree too.

Your statement about prog dwindling and no bands to offer younger listeners is a total mistake. You obviously do not know 98% of the great music out there.

Before you insult the other young listeners to Aural Moon (they are many), try soliciting their opinion. You may find that YOU are the closed-minded old man.

By the way, I've played whole shows on old metal bands, recent metal, and in-between. Try sampling some...but be sure to research before you automatically close it off.

I am 41 years old, and I've been to 400 shows. Not only can I outlast you at a Dream Theater show, but I can hang better than you in most activities.

And our slightly older program director could probably even top that. Speraking of which, we've debated this quite a bit. Our program director has made a decision. Try the close to 12,000 other songs here, and play your Dream Theater in private. That's what I do.

I appreciate your comments, John, but it's posts like these that make me NOT want to play any dream theater on my show.

Finally, I've played Sabbath, Maiden, and Judas Priest on my show. not nec prog, but that's the music I grew up with. And Tool also has been played...a favorite of mine.

One more finally... most listeners of Gentle Giant are much more tolerant than you.

[Yesspaz]

Round 8! Fight!

Ok, everyone take a deep breath. Relax.

Seriously, welcome to Aural Moon John Galt. Nice to meet you.

1. I might suggest, as Roger did, doing a search of the forums for "Dream Theater" and checking out the posts. I call this round 8 because by my count you are the eighth newcomer to make one of their first posts about the absence of DT. Each time it's the same response. So to get the management's position on DT, the easiest way is to read those old threads. It'll be the same answer here.

2. For the record, we've got a lot of teenagers here, and a lot of folks in their 20s here too, myself included. I'm 26, so if you do the math, I was born in 1979, and didn't really get aware of any music beyond my parents' tastes until my teens, as is most people's experience. That was the 1990's. One of my first Yes experiences was hearing "The Calling" on the radio. All that to say that (A) your experience is not unique, and (B) don't assume because we don't have Dream Theater we are a bunch of old fogeys. In fact, our library has over 15,500 individual tracks, and growing weekly, and much of that is new. Watch the "What's Playing Now" window and you'll see what I mean. In fact, I just checked it and the six things showing are 2003, 2004, 1980, 1999, 2003, and a liner.

3. Might I suggest in the future that you make friends and share your live of porg before calling out the station for being made up of "you musically stagnating, closed-minded, middle-aged adult (or should I say... schizoid man)" type people in your first post on the site. It's not the way to get people to welcome you, be friendly, etc. (as evidenced by RickandRoll's post - sorry rick! )

4. Welcome to the MOON! And even though the Program Director has chosen to shy away from most Dream Theater, don't let that run you off. Stick around - I've been to other prog-radio sites and we truly have the best community here. Listen for a few days, chat in the white room (upper right corner of main page) and shout in the black box. Make requests and start jabbering away!

5. Finally, since you seem to like virtuosity and metal, here are a few suggestions from the playlist to try out. You may already know of these and have them, so forgive me if I seem redundant. Some of them have members of Dream Theater in them.



Liquid Tension Experiment
Bozzio Levin Stevens
Tony Palacios
Explorers Club
Anekdoten
Yes - the album "Talk"
Djam Karet
Rush
Porcupine Tree
Opeth
The Tangent
Platypus
OSI


and not on AM, but nonetheless


The Devin Townshend Band
King's X
Stratovarius
Static-X
The Jelly Jam

[zvinki]

From a fellow Dream Theater (and Tool) lover, welcome to the Moon John. If your vocabulary is any indication, you are intelligent and, therefore, will probably stick around and sample the sounds here. Don't let us old folks (45 years old here) scare you off.

(Good suggestions Spaz)

[podakayne]

well...welcome john. i'm not going to add anything to the arguement for DT...i think the posts above me articulate the many reasons for their diminutive presence on the playlist.

i will, however, take note to your mention of being close-minded, middle -aged...etc, etc, etc.....our program director(Jim) is very open-minded, well-versed, well-traveled, remarkably ageless (as most of us are) and is always willing to put some new group to the listen test. that being said take note if you come across music you think should be included—please pass it on to his ears. there is a ton of music on the playlist "as suggested by aural moon listeners". so careful what you imply.

this is a community of music lovers that span several...le'me say that again...several age groups...with diverse taste even within this genre. we are tolerant of many opinions....but please dont start bashing the prog vets with lines like close-minded...it's sooooo....frell! it's just wrong!

be welcome...have fun...bring friends
poda

as typoed by Yesspaz
...share your live of porg...

sorry Yspaz that one had me laughing out loud

[John Galt]

When I said "newer stuff", I meant relatively. Some stations only play music from the seventies. Yes, I know Mike Portnoy is the drummer (rolls eyes). And Transatlantic is most of the reason I have a Spock's Beard CD. I'll try not to be mad at you for being patronizing since there are so many other DT threads.

But I still feel I need to show you how ridiculous this is.

They're almost TOO talented.

they're a very good band that has put out some good music.

So clearly there are no problems with the quality of the band.

there is a lot of heavy music on the Moon

No problem there either.

That leaves an argument that I found in response to many of the threads, that DT isn't progressive enough. With your 6 CDs (versus my pitifully ignorant 5), especially if one is Scenes From A Memory, it should be very hard for you to deny their progressiveness.

If a concept album with ten minute songs and really wacky times signatures strewn about isn't progressive, what is? (they do have a lot of VERY progressive stuff besides that, SFAM is just the easiest example)

Now to respond to the off topic comments:

Oh and Porcupine Tree is more popular now than Dream Theater, my friend.

What? Among teenagers? Let's see, I know maybe a dozen people, at most, that listen to DT, not including you guys on the internet. The number of acquaintances that I know listen to Porcupine Tree: ZERO. None. At all. Take into account that I know two (2!) people who come close to being progressive rock fans, and I get a totally different picture. Maybe on the Moon, but down here on Earth (around Houston, Texas, anyway) things are a bit different. I know Radiohead fans, but no PT.

Oh wait, there was that one girl's dad, but... no, he doesn't listen to much prog anymore, so he doesn't count.

I realize most of it is a wankfest.

just like I realize that Yes is just a bunch of college know-it-alls, and King Crimson is just Robert Fripp noodling around on a guitar, and Peter Gabriel is just a wanna-be opera singer, etc., etc. Either way, I prefer wankfest to some of the cheesy Spock's Beard songs I know are on here any day.

Your statement about prog dwindling and no bands to offer younger listeners is a total mistake. You obviously do not know 98% of the great music out there.

and you obviously do not know 98% of younger listeners.

Before you insult the other young listeners to Aural Moon (they are many), try soliciting their opinion.

When did I insult younger listeners? I'm sure they would comment if they disagreed.

You may find that YOU are the closed-minded old man.

I'm trying to expand the music played on this station, not narrow it.

Not only can I outlast you at a Dream Theater show, but I can hang better than you in most activities.

Yeah... I have no idea what that means.

Try the close to 12,000 other songs here, and play your Dream Theater in private. That's what I do.

I'll probably end up doing that, too. But not playing DT on a prog station just seems... silly.

it's posts like these that make me NOT want to play any dream theater on my show.

The music, too, right?

most listeners of Gentle Giant are much more tolerant than you.

I'm sorry if I seemed intolerant. It was late at night, and sometimes I enjoy writing provocative stuff to get a reaction. Your untenable position made it pretty easy, though. But it's good to see you're awake.

I hate to admit this, guys, after the comments I got about it, but I'm not really a fan of TOOL... not yet, anyway.... DT, System of a Down, and the Deftones are about as far as I've gotten into metal. Like I said, I got to DT from prog, not the other way around. Sorry to disappoint you.

Ironically, the reason I came to this station in the first place is because my last one (Delicious Agony) seemed to only play newer music, like DT, and the classics.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by John Galt
It was late at night, and sometimes I enjoy writing provocative stuff to get a reaction.

True - for some reason I should have seen that. I just can't stand that line of reasoning. Flaming is so pointless and unproductive.

After being at work, then five hours with my promising venture, I wonder why I even am responding.

Now you may have the last word.

[John Galt]

Does that make it any less true?

[roger]

John,

do you understand that walking into a community and insulting a lot of the people there doesn't make it very likely that they will listen to your arguments, no matter how well founded?

[Wojtek]

Hello John,

welcome to the Moon.
I am 21 and as a representative of youngsters here there is only one possible comment on your accussations of lack of open mind on Aural Moon. This comment is mega-ROTFL!
I agree that there is lot of nostalgia here, many Moonies look for the spirit of the times they were growing up in but for God's sake it's not the whole AM style. It's essence is the mix of generations, mix of spirits. That's why middle aged Moonies enjoy also Porcupine Tree, thats why I enjoy when for ex. Wishbone Ash is played. THAT is the Aural Moon.

Now strictly about DT. Again I agree with you. DT is pure prog, they are evolving but always in progressive style, every album is a bit different but Portnoy cares about the progressiveness. I consider latest release Octavarium as a perfect release for the Moon, because of it's classic prog ROCK (not metal) feel. Especially title epic, with echoes of Hackett, IQ, Neal Morse, with the beginning as in Floyd's Wish You Were Here.

BUT

We are small community, that's why we don't have to be 'politically correct' in aspect of playing what we should, what's most popular etc, so personal tastes are clue factors of what is played here. Taking that into consideration I fully constent to decisions connected with personal tastes of AM bosses because even if I don't share this point of view in given situation (and as I said I consider DT prog) they are doing such a marvellous work here that such matters are absolutely 'excusable'. So I'd like Octavarium here but if it's not I'll request sth different and thank AM crew for their great work.

BTW. I see grain of truth in the arguments against DT on AM because of their show-offish way of playing. It irritates me too (I don't like Awake). But they have quite many compositions in which there is great, 'tempered' progressive rock. I highly reccommend Octavarium as a release for the Moon (maybe apart form opening track ).

So to sum up, you wanted to provoke. Miss. As we here say the bullet is in fence.

[Yesspaz]

Oh, and Brother Galt, if you're around today (Wednesday) and are trying to request, don't think we've banned you. Wednesdays are request-free.

[MrMagoo]

Does anybody find it a tad ironic that "John Galt" is preaching that others change their ways? Here's a quote from John Galt in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged: "I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine."

So now I must ask: "who is John Galt"?

[John Galt]

When I said "Does that make it any less true?" I was referring to the conspicuous absence of DT, NOT all the intolerant, insulting remarks I made. The purpose of that was to get your attention (it was fun to write, too). If I actually believed that stuff I wouldn't still be here. The bullet may be in the fence, but I have the person I was shooting at's attention.

Then again, maybe that wasn't necessary. But it was fun to write.

Thank you, MrMagoo, for asking that. But I do seem to remember him making a 3 hour long speech TO OTHER PEOPLE. You could almost say he was "preaching that others change their ways." Or maybe I should just change my name to Ellsworth Toohey.

[roger]

Originally posted by John Galt
(it was fun to write, too).

Then again, maybe that wasn't necessary. But it was fun to write.

you enjoy insulting people that you don't even know? now that is disturbing. hopefully youth as a whole don't follow your lead.

[moses]

Hi there everyone!

It's me, Moses. I'm just posting because I haven't in a while, although I've been reading faithfully. I really have nothing to add to the thread that hasn't already been said, except...

Welcome to the Moon, John!

No wait, that's been said also. But not from me. So there it is.

Usually what I do when I don't have anything to add to a thread but I want to post anyway is hijack it. So...

Remember that time I brought up punctuation in a thread hijack? That was funny, but with a sad ending. But now it's happy again.

First thing that came to mind. Discussion on this topic need not ensue, unless it wants to. It was in the Yngwie thread, I believe.

[John Galt]

I wouldn't say I enjoy insulting people I don't even know... although that may be a side affect... more that I enjoy writing fiery propoganda every once in awhile. It's not very often that I have a good cause (excuse) for writing it, though.

Unfortunately youth as a whole don't follow my lead... but think, if they did, progressive rock would be as popular (or more so) as in the seventies, and Britney Spears would be the leader of some dying underground pop movement. Prog (including Dream Theater, but not Spock's Beard )would replace country on the radio, and the world would enter a golden age of knowledge and enlightenment such as has never been seen. All in all, not such a bad place.

See, I can write happy propoganda, too.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally posted by John Galt
Unfortunately youth as a whole don't follow my lead... but think, if they did, progressive rock would be as popular (or more so) as in the seventies, and Britney Spears would be the leader of some dying underground pop movement. Prog (including Dream Theater, but not Spock's Beard )would replace country on the radio, and the world would enter a golden age of knowledge and enlightenment such as has never been seen. All in all, not such a bad place.

The progressive movement is better than at any time, including the 70's. It's fallacy that prog is the "anti-pop". As a percentage of what is listened to, talked about, etc, it's very popular.

Every generation has their Britneys. Top 40 and the like was still the predominant music back then, and even country. All of that has no effect on the popularity of prog.

Underground pop movement? That's an oxymoron. Try to understand that you will never change what sells. Just enjoy what you enjoy. Who says it would be better if prog was played on the radio. Then what? Prog top 40?

Who really cares about the popularity of things, John? Just relax and enjoy it, and don't live in a pretend world where you are the king of pop culture. I don't care who is the "best" drummer,etc.

I would never play a tune on my show based on sales. But, I'll happily play pop and lighter music is it's what I like, and I have an ear out for others.

I dislike country music, but I wouldn't want it replaced. If others like it, so what?

We are in a golden age. Open your eyes and enjoy it.

[Yesspaz]

Originally posted by Rick and Roll
I would never play a tune on my show based on sales.

Ah, but do we not often NOT play a song on AM if it's TOO popular?