Modern music's success

[progdirjim(Admin)]

I can read most of what colt has written, but it'd be pretty hard for me to translate. Having spoken with Elric in person, for instance, I am quite sure his English is much better than my French. I can say that colt's posts were quite sensible - further discussion on the idea of prog being more than a musical choice, but a way of life. Another way to say it (and I'm paraphrasing a LOT) is that your choice of music is in many ways a reflection of your personality. I think it comes back to two things - individual choice (ironically enough an album title from a French artiste), and Rick's comment about prog music being "challenging" (I'm again paraphrasing). I happen to like some punk, the more well written and produced stuff, as well as a lot of non-prog music. But almost all prog has enough CONCERN for music as an art form or statement of ideas to make it resonate with me.

colt: Je ne parle pas francais bien, mais merci et bienvenue. Tu a raison!

[Elric68]

Keithie, I'm not such a good guy, really.

Well, I agree with Rick_W about the cost of a concert ticket. As far as I can remember the most expensive ticket I bought was a Peter Gabriel ticket for 50€, but the concert was in Germany. Marillion comes 2nd with 33€, and then Porcupine Tree, 23€. After that, Wishbone Ash 18€, Jethro Tull + Canned Heat + Manfred Mann 18€ (!!!!), and lots of other bands for very cheap tickets.

I agree about Madonna and Jon Anderson too (though I'm not sure for the Madonna part , can she really be a star ?).

Indeed, there are lots of French prog rock bands, just as Nil or Ange, Clearlight, Maldoror, Magma, and the others, but indeed they aren't famous at all in their own country.

The most stunning example to explain my problem is Wishbone Ash. In France (I don't know if it's the same in other countries), June 21st is the music day, so people who play music, bands, set stages on the street and play their music. Only amateurs, of course no professional bands, people play for their pleasure, so there are no tickets, people walk in the streets and listen to what they want freely. I can remember discussing with Wishbone Ash and they said that they played at the music's day in France (I think that was in Lyon but I'm not quite sure).

Starting from this, I'm asking you: why does a band like W.A, who encountered such a success in the USA, have to play on the street for a free concert ? I know they play for their pleasure, because they played this day, they played the day I saw them live with less than 50 people in the audience, and they played again in Colmar when only 30 people came to see them, including Elric of course. But are they rewarded for their passion and their work ? Their music is 10 times worth a Madonna or a Green Day album, but still, they play for free in a feast because they just love music (I never saw a famous band play on the street for free, and I know that a Madonna ticket is around 100€), and that kindness, that love of music is rewarded with 30 poor 18€ tickets each time they play in France ... I would never play in France, but they still do ... I think this is a very sad story. The same for Mostly Autumn, whose members are to find work between the tours because they cannot afford to live normally only with their albums and tickets sold ... Lots of bands have the same problem, but I only heard about M.A so that's my example. Isn't it sad ?

And Jim, you understood what Colt said and translated the main idea perfectly, which proves your French is very good ! I happen to like some other music than progressive rock too, but music made with that concern you're talking about. Music made with the hearts and the minds of the musicians. One of the songs I like most is Camel's "Ice" (Never Let Go version, CD1), because on that version of the song, I can feel Latimer's emotion when he plays, I can feel passion in his playing. And when I play music myself, I want to express that too.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by Elric68

June 21st is the music day

That's close to Aural moon's birthday.....

[podakayne]

a reply by elric to keithieW
"Keithie, I'm not such a good guy, really."

oh yes elric...you really, really are a good guy.

podakayne

p.s. excellent reading on this thread. glad you started it. i've nothing to add as my fellow prog lovers appear to have expressed my opinions well.

[saxamaphone]

I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I got a few questions after my posting so here are my answers:

Rick and Roll: I am in Ellicott City (the eastern most point of it)

Yesspaz: Your are right, my name is a reference to a Simpson's episode where Homer picks up Lisa's saxaphone and sings "Sax-a-ma-phone, sax-a-ma-phone" to the melody of Beethoven's Ninth. I also play the saxaphone so it works well for me. That scene in the Simpsons just got stuck in my head for some reason.

Elric68: I am "mister new member", lol.

Rick and Roll, I agree with your point about how the compexity of the music can be too large of an investment for many people. For many people, the music is just in the background, and they do not want to have to focus on it. They are drawn to simple lyrics and melodies and repetitive rhythms for that reason. I don't think prog music has much to offer them.

Thanks for the welcome!

Josh

[rick_wakeman]

Originally Posted by podakayne

oh yes elric...you really, really are a good guy.

podakayne

p.s. excellent reading on this thread. glad you started it. i've nothing to add as my fellow prog lovers appear to have expressed my opinions well.

hi queen, long time no read. by the way, i'm stopping at Washington before re-taking off to indianapolis on oct 19.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by saxamaphone

I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I got a few questions after my posting so here are my answers:

Rick and Roll: I am in Ellicott City (the eastern most point of it)


Thanks for the welcome!

Josh

i was just in EC two weeks ago to see a friend (Cliff from Chaos Code) play at the "Judge's bench" bar....I'm in Parkville

[ZoOgY-DoOgY]

Intensity... Depth, passion... I think we are all here for same reason.
Progressive music is more than a style, I agree with all your comments about it. Prog can feed all styles ! And all styles feed prog ! In fact, prog is just transcendent in music as it is for us transcendental.
What we can't understand at this point is why the hell some people are not able to open themselves to that intensity, at least just a little. Too long tracks ? Too complex tracks maybe ? There are short and simple prog tracks too...
I personnally think the answer is NOT in music. It is a biologic and psychological phenomena (omg I need to check dictionnary). Humans don't want to make efforts and their efforts are done to make less efforts, or take pleasure, or take more pleasure. There is not only that fact, but we can't list them without entering a very complicate thread and maybe boring (yeah that's it, don't want to write/read posts like that right now, I'm human...). Well, there is one thing important, way more important than we often think : Mediatic Pollution. And particullary, ears pollutions. A simple (and bad) song to promote corn-flakes or grassplot's health product (just ask a french if he knows Fertiligene...) can STAY IN YOUR MIND FOR HOURS SOMETIMES DAYS. Again it is not enough to explain but this thing is a big part of the problem since people are meeting them in compact communities...
And how being more open to others when we are deeply link to communities ? So how being "prog" like that ? Intensity often express himself out of communities... The only choice you have is being a part of a community related to all other communities... Prog one (at least in music of course). The problem is that if you want to go out of it and join another, you need to make efforts.
Listening to Madonna ask no effort (gives no pleasure and for me gives also nausea but that's not the point). Of course for some people it is easier. Elric has no problem, his father had already make an effort

[Elric68]

Yeah, but I made the effort myself, my dad only tried helping me when making me listen to Pendragon, but he did the same with my sis' and brother, and my sister listens to Madonna, Muse, Green Day, Indochine, and my brother likes the same music as me just because I'm his big brother. And he finds prog boring. He only likes the heavy part of what I like myself.

After my dad made me discover Marillion, Hawkwind and Pendragon, I tried myself to discover some other bands, and to listen, buy, experiment, (play too) music. Because prog is a music that one experiments. And finally I am the one who helps him discover things now. I lend him CD's, and yesterday he borrowed my Subterranea (IQ) and my Visitor (Arena).

[ZoOgY-DoOgY]

That's exactly what i'm talking about The fact is you were not alone to discover. You could probably discover prog yourself alone, yes, of course, many people do it too. But it is "easier" with a father/a mother/a brother/a friend. Easier with a community, easier with a beer...

[Elric68]

Yup, I agree on this. The experimentation has to be done alone first, but someone has to introduce you to the prog world before, to advise you, to tell you what are the gems and what are the boring albums, and then you can experiment by yourself.