Aural Moon Shows

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

Absolutely! However, it was requested/suggested we have a theme day. Fridays, in case you haven't noticed, have also eroded into Fusion Friday; albeit, unofficially.


Well.

I'm not discrediting them. It's been a great and fun way to get a sense of community.

I hadn't thanks. I see about the alliterations (Themeing Thursday, Fusion Friday).

Isn't all meant to be about having a bit of FUN?????????

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by KeithieW

Isn't all meant to be about having a bit of FUN?????????

Yes - 1 vote

[jtmckinley]

Hey Cozy! Long time no hear or read. Glad to hear you're doing well. I miss your show, I guess I never thought of posting in the Interzone forum thread, but I have questioned what happened to the Interzone a couple times in chat.

I'm with Dale & VAX on the psychedelic show, I've always liked that kind of music and consider it to be one of the main precursors to prog and I sometimes listen to the TWOS stream when I need a psychedelic fix, so it would definitely be cool to have a psychedelic show on the Moon in my book. Maybe sometime during the work day (e.g. a spot during 9-5 EST).

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

I know I'm coming into the fray late here. But there are some points that I feel MUST be addressed.

I've known Tom Gagliardi for many years now. I've been running his show since shortly after Aural Moon first introduced it lo these many years ago.
He's a close, personal friend. Having said that, I'd like to toss in a disclaimer that I'm not taking any of this personally. Just bringing to light some things that may not be evident to Joe Random Listener.

Originally Posted by OverHillAndDale

4 hours - Gags is a four hour marathon of which a very low percentage of folks listen to on it's original broadcast night.

This isn't necessarily true. We keep a record of listeners on an hourly basis. Granted, we don't get as many listeners as prime time, but there's more than could even be charitably considered a 'very low percentage'.

Originally Posted by OverHillAndDale

Those that come into shout about then usually roll their virual eyes. Now out of that 4 hours, approximatley only 3 hours of it are music. The rest are promotions for New Jersey and other places and events that AM listeners have little to no interest in (or they've heard them so many times....). Do we really want promos and commercials on our airwaves?

You need to adjust your calculations a bit. At most, there are three to five PSAs per hour. That's at most five minutes of every sixty minute hour. That's less than 10%, much less 25%.

We really have no choice in this matter. We pull Tom's show straight off their streaming server and put it right on the air. I could sit and try to block out the PSAs (that Tom is legally required to run), but the alternate would be dead air. Now I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'd find dead air more tedious than PSAs about the latest New Jersey law or historical information about the Pine Barrens.

Besides, there's a technical limitation to consider.

There's usually a seven to ten second delay from the moment Tom says something until it gets to us. It makes timing VERY interesting. That's the main reason there's always a glitch of WBZC foo at the end of his show. I have nothing to judge by save the meters that are bouncing on the station. I can get fairly close, but hitting the cut-off button right as his outro finishes is almost impossible.

Now imagine trying to hit that same button in the middle of a show for sixty seconds of dead air.

Not my idea of an enjoyable Saturday evening, I assure you.

Originally Posted by OverHillAndDale

The show just is not working as well anymore, for me. What that show was prior to the RIAA uproad has not seemed to return.

Tom's show hasn't changed appreciably over the break. The format is identical. The PSAs, and the credits have, but the content has largely been the same over the years.

Originally Posted by OverHillAndDale

Now, I have to admit I'm new to Tom's shows. I have only been listening to him about 1.5 years - not a very long time. Most of the time I can't understand the dialogue or monologue. I hardly ever know what's playing unless I recognize it. As Lamour said before, that takes a lot of the interest and enjoyment out of the program.

Unfortunately, we can only put out the quality we get. We get a 32k stream from WBZC. That's not likely to improve, since it's a college radio station, and they don't have the budget of a WNBC or KSFO (for our west coast listeners), though if you'd like to offer them a fatter pipe and a heftier server on your dime, I'm sure they wouldn't complain in the least. Barring that, my only suggestion to that is to do what I've been doing since I started listening to Tom many years ago: adjust your client to tone down the bass and treble, and boost the mid range. iTunes has a nice equalizer embedded that works wonders.

Originally Posted by OverHillAndDale

What I'd like to see from Tom is a version of his show that he does just for us. Not a rebroadcast of their Saturday night show, but a separate, individually programmed show just for AM listeners.

This isn't going to happen now or ever. Tom is NOT a professional DJ, in spite of how good his radio presence is. He has a Day Job, just like the rest of us, and he doesn't have the time or energy to put together the regular weekly show and THEN, on top of that, a show for us. It's just not practical, and it'd be horribly unfair to ask it of him.

He provides us a service by bringing a much wider variety of unknown and underplayed artists, free of charge. He does it for no other reason than the love of the music, much the same as Vax, Jim, myself, and Avian. To ask for our own special show would NOT fly.

If we were downloading a MP3 from WBZC, and had a couple of hours to go hack at it with an editor, it might (for extremely small values of 'might') be possible to go through and edit out the PSAs. But as Vax and I both have those unfortunate things known as 'real lives' and 'day jobs', we don't have the time to download 500 MB of show, slice out bits and pieces, re-upload, and get it set up in time for the replay. Possible ain't practical.

Hope this clears things up a bit. I'm no fan of the PSAs either (believe me, I've heard them all and more). But I'd hate even more to have to edit them out, only to replace them with dead air, and I'd hate even worse to lose The Gagliarchives.

Roger -Dot- Lee, makin' up for lost time.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Roger -Dot- Lee

Unfortunately, we can only put out the quality we get. We get a 32k stream from WBZC. That's not likely to improve, since it's a college radio station, and they don't have the budget of a WNBC or KSFO (for our west coast listeners), though if you'd like to offer them a fatter pipe and a heftier server on your dime, I'm sure they wouldn't complain in the least. Barring that, my only suggestion to that is to do what I've been doing since I started listening to Tom many years ago: adjust your client to tone down the bass and treble, and boost the mid range. iTunes has a nice equalizer embedded that works wonders.

OK. Just interjecting a bit on the technical.

We get a 32Kbps stereo stream. That is not high quality by ANY stretch of the imagination. This 32Kbps can, at max, sample at 22KHz (realistically, that's pretty poor quantization at that rate too). Being that this is a stereo feed, that sampling is safely half that for each channel or 11KHz. Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem says that the maximum frequency that can be produced is 1/2 the sample rate. So, this puts the top end around 6KHz. Not great quality? Consider that the high C (key 88 on the piano) is ~4200Hz (middle C is 262Hz, so you can figure it exactly for 4 octaves higher) the frequency spectum we get isn't very good. I'll spare you the Fourier analysis of the distortion that this presents.

That said, I live close enough that I can get Gags off of the FM airwaves. The FCC's FM frequency allocations at ±100KHz permit about 15KHz as the maximum upper frequency (again, I'll spare you the math of the Fourier integral). This is CONSIDERABLY better than we get from the Real stream. If Gags will continue, it was my plan to erect a highly selective, high gain antenna and get the show off of the FM airwaves and encode it in a higher quality MP3 stream to send to the AM server. This would also get rid of the FM preemphasis which now gives Tom's show its bassy boomy sound.

[roger]

Originally Posted by VAXman

OK. Just interjecting a bit on the technical.

We get a 32Kbps stereo stream. That is not high quality by ANY stretch of the imagination. This 32Kbps can, at max, sample at 22KHz (realistically, that's pretty poor quantization at that rate too). Being that this is a stereo feed, that sampling is safely half that for each channel or 11KHz. Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem says that the maximum frequency that can be produced is 1/2 the sample rate. So, this puts the top end around 6KHz. Not great quality? Consider that the high C (key 88 on the piano) is ~4200Hz (middle C is 262Hz, so you can figure it exactly for 4 octaves higher) the frequency spectum we get isn't very good. I'll spare you the Fourier analysis of the distortion that this presents.

That said, I live close enough that I can get Gags off of the FM airwaves. The FCC's FM frequency allocations at ±100KHz permit about 15KHz as the maximum upper frequency (again, I'll spare you the math of the Fourier integral). This is CONSIDERABLY better than we get from the Real stream. If Gags will continue, it was my plan to erect a highly selective, high gain antenna and get the show off of the FM airwaves and encode it in a higher quality MP3 stream to send to the AM server. This would also get rid of the FM preemphasis which now gives Tom's show its bassy boomy sound.

you'd do that during all your copious free-time, Vax?

/hug

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

You don't really need a mandated theme to have varied requests. You don't even need to have a theme - a suggestion is helpful, maybe.

I thought that's what they WERE -- suggestions. I wasn't aware that theming thursday was mandatory.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Give the Aural Moon listeners some credit - left to their own devices, things work out pretty good.

I've found, with very limited exceptions, that this is indeed the case. When dealing with a group this large, issues can arise. My policy, however, is to generally let things take their own course.

Unless, of course, they denigrate even further, in which case I'm definitely not hesitant to invoke the titanium-plated drill-bit of common courtesy (as I believe any of the regulars (and even some of the not-so-regulars) can likely attest to).

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

As for the "vapid" comment, sometimes I'll have a show like that but I tend to shy away from them. the artists played drive the theme, not the other way around. A set theme (as you yourself have stated and I agree) is limiting. Again, the music selection is first then the theme, for me.

True, it may be limiting. However, without following a theme of one form or another, the shows can (and likely will) turn into little more than a three hour request block. Not something I'm interested in supporting.

Roger -Dot- Lee

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by roger

you'd do that during all your copious free-time, Vax?

/hug

Free time? Nah, I just sacrifice sleep. Besides, sleep is highly overrated.

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally Posted by VAXman

OK. Just interjecting a bit on the technical.

Always welcome from this corner of God's Country.

Though other members might disagree.

Anyway, on to the comments and questions:

Originally Posted by VAXman

We get a 32Kbps stereo stream. That is not high quality by ANY stretch of the imagination.

No, it's really not. I don't believe I've ever heard Gags on the 56k stream, so I can't say for certain how much of an impact this could have on sound quality. I'm sure it wouldn't be all that much as the limiting factor is still the 32k we get from WBZC.

Originally Posted by VAXman

This 32Kbps can, at max, sample at 22KHz (realistically, that's pretty poor quantization at that rate too).

I agree on the statement that it's poor quantization. I'm wondering, however, why the sampling rate is so low, especially considering that the audio is compressed before it even heads this way (I believe).

Side question: does Real Player use compression? If it can, but we're currently not, we may want to consider it. It may be a bit of extra work, but I think the benefits would outweigh the additional overhead.

Originally Posted by VAXman

I'll spare you the Fourier analysis of the distortion that this presents.

Let's talk off line.

Originally Posted by VAXman

That said, I live close enough that I can get Gags off of the FM airwaves.

How far out are you? And will inclement weather perhaps cause signal degradation as well as 'black holes'?

Originally Posted by VAXman

The FCC's FM frequency allocations at ±100KHz permit about 15KHz as the maximum upper frequency (again, I'll spare you the math of the Fourier integral).

Again, let's take it off line.

Dr. Dot, doin' some postdoc work here.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Roger -Dot- Lee

Side question: does Real Player use compression? If it can, but we're currently not, we may want to consider it. It may be a bit of extra work, but I think the benefits would outweigh the additional overhead.

I don't know all of the details of Real's codecs; however, I would say it's safe to assume that the quality calculation wouldn't improve much with incorporation.

Originally Posted by Roger -Dot- Lee

How far out are you? And will inclement weather perhaps cause signal degradation as well as 'black holes'?

Well, as the crow flies, about 22 miles. As the horseflies, about 35 miles as we have to go around Lakehurst Naval Air Engineering Station. It's a 40-45 minute drive for me from home to Tom's studio. Be aware this is south Jersey and those are NOT highway miles.

As for black holes, I haven't seen any.

[Thor]

Personally I think that the compression of Gags makes the show unlistenable on the web, and dropping it would be fine with me.

I do like Mcfee's Progshores which I haven't heard in a long while.

On another note, I like the concept of a Digressive Prog Show, but I'm not sure if it would work since there would be major battles as to what is and isn't prog again. BÖC Deep Purple, etc. I'm sure someone out there feels that The Carpenters is viable.... but I digress.

[lamour]

Originally Posted by Roger -Dot- Lee

I've known Tom Gagliardi for many years now. I've been running his show since shortly after Aural Moon first introduced it lo these many years ago.
He's a close, personal friend.

Great! Today on his show Tom said something that made me curious about something. However, since nobody who seems to know anything about him or his show was around listening to it, I couldn't get an answer to my question.

He said something that made it sound like his father was famous or important in the music industry or something, and it made me wonder...who is Tom? Who is his father?

I've never heard his name anywhere except on the moon, so I don't have any idea who he is, but people seem to talk about him here like he's the reason prog exists. I feel like I'm missing some important piece of information.

[note: as I reread this, I feel that it would be easy to misread the tone of this message. I'm not being antagonistic. I'm just asking a question that I don't have the answer to.]


thanks,
lamour

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by lamour

Great! Today on his show Tom said something that made me curious about something. However, since nobody who seems to know anything about him or his show was around listening to it, I couldn't get an answer to my question.

He said something that made it sound like his father was famous or important in the music industry or something, and it made me wonder...who is Tom? Who is his father?

I've never heard his name anywhere except on the moon, so I don't have any idea who he is, but people seem to talk about him here like he's the reason prog exists. I feel like I'm missing some important piece of information.

[note: as I reread this, I feel that it would be easy to misread the tone of this message. I'm not being antagonistic. I'm just asking a question that I don't have the answer to.]


thanks,
lamour

Lamour, please visit his website, it has a section devoted to his father.

I don't think you're missing anything. I don't have that impression.

[gr8sho92]

Originally Posted by lamour

I've never heard his name anywhere except on the moon, so I don't have any idea who he is, but people seem to talk about him here like he's the reason prog exists. I feel like I'm missing some important piece of information.

He's only 35, so that's not it. My impression of the history here is that he was a person that embraced prog when many of us (including me) had stopped listening to prog. He carried the torch and as such has established himself as a tour de force in this area. A subject matter expert if you will.

If you follow some of the discussions on progarchives, there were some interesting posts of people referring to the acts of the early 70s that pioneered prog as dinosaur bands, implying the notion of extinction. The renaissance (pun intended) of prog in recent years is very interesting to me, including a lot of excellent music that has surfaced in the past few, and a reason I embrace AM.

[lamour]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Lamour, please visit his website, it has a section devoted to his father.

I Googled for about 15-20 mintues before I gave up. He has a website? I couldn't find anything with any information on it at all. Perhaps I just didn't use the right terms.

OK, I found a gagliarchives site that links to his father's website. He's a jazz guitarist in Philly and Tom's icon-ness is completely unrelated?

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

I don't think you're missing anything. I don't have that impression.

well...just looking at this thread (and the parent thread):

Originally Posted by gr8sho92

My $0.02. Tom Gagliardi is clearly an icon in the prog world.

Originally Posted by VAXman

Precisely!

Originally Posted by KeithieW

Indeed he is and I feel that Aural Moon should be honoured to run his show.

Originally Posted by OverHillandDale

Tom's musical knowledge is tantamout to the Prog scene on the East coast. He is a major force to be utilized to support and promote the growth and sustainment of Progressive Rock in the United States and abroad.

while I overstated it before for emphasis, this is still pretty high praise for someone I know nothing about. I was just curious who he is. I'm not saying that the praise is undeserved, just that I have no information to go on, that's all.

(because it's all about me) ;-)


ignorantly,
lamour

[Rick and Roll]

lamour,

I sent you my email so we can take a discussion offline. In the meantime -

http://www.gagliarchives.com/

Rick

[PFD]

OK...I have to ask:

What does this mean?

"The new Home Edition of the Gagliarchives coming soon on Aural Moon "

What does Home Edition mean?

[sharcnorris]

O.K., Im a grizzeled old Progger.
1) I need the Rickter Scale. The man has seen live, more bands then the moon could play in a Day. Im constantly Introduced to Whole CD's of New Artists with a chance to get the whole thing played. He knows more about the Modern Artists than Any Moonie Alive except the Boss. He also appreciates the Edges of prog. ( like T.Dolby or TF Fears) R&R is a must
2) Gags is a must, insitefull and Interviews with the Best Artists. He held the torch when most let it slip out of their Hands.
3) I like Cozy and Interzone, However Im really into the Fusion action not the pure jazz. His expertise of all "that Jazzy Crap" Is so good but I find that his Straight Jazz artists are not in the Moons Vein.
4) Sean has the world covered but sometimes its just to obsure, I have said before that just because its Prog doesnt make it automatically good. Many poor artists IMHO

5) This station NEEDS a New release Show! Period
6) Now to make Jim and Management Cringe, I would still Like a Classics show for an Hour or Two from recordings of the giants of '66 to 86'

[lamour]

Originally Posted by sharcnorris

3) I like Cozy and Interzone, However Im really into the Fusion action not the pure jazz. His expertise of all "that Jazzy Crap" Is so good but I find that his Straight Jazz artists are not in the Moons Vein.

And that's why there's more than one show on the Moon. I love Cozy's show. It's up to Jim if it fits his vision for the station, but it's certainly music to my ears. ;-)

(you didn't mention Moses' show, but my comments are the same for that)

4) Sean has the world covered but sometimes its just to obsure, I have said before that just because its Prog doesnt make it automatically good. Many poor artists IMHO

How on earth can you ever get too obscure for prog? Just because it's obscure doesn't mean it's bad. A lot of what I like to listen to sounds like noise to other people.* That's kinda why I'm here. Cutting a show from the Moon because it doesn't only play bands that sound like everyone else seems like a bad idea to me. I'd rather hear something that sounds like nothing I've ever heard before on the off chance that it's something I'll love than to hear more music by bands rehashing the same stuff over and over. I would think the whole point of shows is to introduce us to new things we probably wouldn't find otherwise.

* one time I had 3-4 browser tabs open on youtube videos and the browser crashed. when I started it back up it started playing all of them at the same time. I didn't realize what was happening at first, so I was trying to figure out what song was playing because it was so awesome I wanted to go buy it. ;-)

(it was 2 Naikaku songs, a Stanley Clarke song, and something else, I think. In case you care.)

6) Now to make Jim and Management Cringe, I would still Like a Classics show for an Hour or Two from recordings of the giants of '66 to 86'

wow, they win one silly football game and now the Giants get a radio show on the Moon? How crazy is that? ;-)


Whatever happens happens. As long as the music stays fresh, I'm happy.


imho,
lamour