Metallica

[ion_tichy]

Metallica's heavy rock and interesting lyrics have been influenced by classical music. My album suggestions :

Black (1991) - a real turning point in their music

S & M (1999) - Symphony & Metallica, recorded live in Berkeley California on April 21-22, 1999 with the San Francisco Symphony. The SFS really takes the rough edges out of Metallica's music while enhancing it at the same time.

SFS conductor Michael Kamen passed away in 2003. Check out his article in the New York Times from 1972 on rock music, classical music, and progressiveness.

http://www.michaelkamen.com/news.php..._from=&ucat=2&

[Rick and Roll]

Interesting to see Metallica in a thread. I did play a song once on the show from the Black album. But personally I like their previous records much better. I think a lot of other hard rock bands incorporate an orchestra better than them. Sounds like Metallica with an orchestra in back to me.

I think they lost their edge. I want them back in not out!

[Hawksun]

No Metallica for me. They sound like Trash-Metal trying to be pop to my hears(especially on the black album), which I find sacrilegious.

And S&M was OK, though really not that great. I liked the orchestrations a bit, but thought they didn't go that well with the Metallica tracks.

[Yesspaz]

Heh, if there's no Dream Theater here, I sure don't see this happening.

Originally Posted by Yesspaz

Heh, if there's no Dream Theater here, I sure don't see this happening.

Agreed there Spaz........not fond of Metallica AT ALL!!!!

I still laugh when I think back to Metallica losing out on the best "Heavy Metal" Grammy to Jethro Tull's "Crest of a Knave" album. I'm sure that really cheesed them off.

[mailotron]

Please no Metallica here on the Moon there are enough others radio dévoted to polyform hard rock. I respect Metallica-listeners however.
Bye
Mailo
NB there are some DT' stuff here

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by KeithieW

Agreed there Spaz........not fond of Metallica AT ALL!!!!

I still laugh when I think back to Metallica losing out on the best "Heavy Metal" Grammy to Jethro Tull's "Crest of a Knave" album. I'm sure that really cheesed them off.

That was funny, I remember that night very well. Goes to show you how people get confused about rock...a rock/prog record beats out a hard rock record for a grammy. Grammies, hall of fames, awards

Anyway, let's not get into Metallica being on the Moon. Ion's just making conversation. Metallica and Dream Theater have NOTHING in common.

Any any fan of Metallica knows that the black album was the start of their downfall. Hawk I agree with your view...they were trying to be mainstream, but I was a fan in 1983 on their first record, well after I got into Gentle Giant, etc. To each his own. And as I said earlier and Hawk echoed, the orchestration doesn't mesh with Metallica. Speaking of Tull, it doesn't mesh on "A Classic Case" either (of course that was done separately from the band).

Sure, they've sold a lot of records since then, but as a fan I'll take "And Justice For All" or "Master of Puppets" any day.

[PFD]

I don't mind Metallica, I have a couple of their records; but I don't think they belong here. If you include Metallica, it opens up a whole can of worms...like Black Sabbath, or Iron Maiden.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by PFD

I don't mind Metallica, I have a couple of their records; but I don't think they belong here. If you include Metallica, it opens up a whole can of worms...like Black Sabbath, or Iron Maiden.

Good point (as usual), PFD.

I still am not sure the original intent of the thread was inclusion on the Moon (but maybe I am wrong, I did not introduce it). Sounds like just general discussion.

I'm long held the belief that a lot of Sabbath and Maiden have prog elements, (and are two of my favorite 10 bands). But you'll never get me to advocate any inclusion on the moon of hard rock. Same goes for the Who, etc.

The Black Sabbath show I did last year was fun when it sparked discussion of the group - tiresome when we discussed whether it should be on the Moon.

I'm not fighting that fight, although there's plenty of alternative-type acts on the Moon. Plenty of other songs on the Moon to choose without hard rock, I can just put the CD on.

[Goodsall]

'Allo Rick!

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Interesting to see Metallica in a thread. I did play a song once on the show from the Black album. But personally I like their previous records much better. I think a lot of other hard rock bands incorporate an orchestra better than them. Sounds like Metallica with an orchestra in back to me.

I think they lost their edge. I want them back in not out!

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by Goodsall

'Allo Rick!

Welcome to the new Moon John!

[ion_tichy]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Anyway, let's not get into Metallica being on the Moon. Ion's just making conversation. Metallica and Dream Theater have NOTHING in common.

Sorry for the trouble folks. It was not my intention to make conversation but rather to suggest music for auralmoon. After reading the comments here I now have to agree that auralmoon is maybe not the right forum for Metallica even though some of their work may appear to be progrock-like.

Regards,

Ion

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by ion_tichy

Sorry for the trouble folks. It was not my intention to make conversation but rather to suggest music for auralmoon. After reading the comments here I now have to agree that auralmoon is maybe not the right forum for Metallica even though some of their work may appear to be progrock-like.

Regards,

Ion

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

Anyway, a question... I do think a lot of hard rock has progressive elements - and my theory is that people who dislike heavy music are reluctant to see that - so how do you think Metallica fits? Is it just because of the orchestra?

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

Please let me know what you think...

[teermin8r]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

Like you haven't done that before

[mossy]

Hey tee..have a great vacation in Yellowstone! Those furry things you bump into trying to find the outside bog at night are bears.

Enjoy yourself.

[ion_tichy]

Listening to programs on Auralmoon (like Richter Scale, Interzone, Gagliarchives) has made me aware of variations on progressive music such as progressive metal, progressive gothic metal/rock, symphonic rock, etc.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Anyway, a question... I do think a lot of hard rock has progressive elements - and my theory is that people who dislike heavy music are reluctant to see that - so how do you think Metallica fits? Is it just because of the orchestra?

I feel that the Metallica work has one foot (or at least toes) in progressive metal and one foot in hard rock. It is the mix of melodies, rhythyms, lyrics, and energy. These qualities make their music stand apart from other heavy metal bands for me. It is not a continuous wall of blasting music.

The orchestra is not it. The orchestration of their songs (the assembly of musical ideas, the flow and connection between pieces of a song, the nuances, the way the instruments are played) is the key.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

I agree with your assessment.

The Black album was probably not a good suggestion. But to me, it represents maturation of their music and themselves.

I mentioned the S&M album because of the melding of two groups of artists (Metallica and SFS) and the effect. S&M has layers of sound, a complicated structure, a robust quality, and "atmospheric" episodes. You can drill down into the performance and pick out those progressive passages.

Cheers,

Ion

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by ion_tichy

a robust quality,

Hey "robust" is an overused business term!

Nice reply, Ion...good stuff.

[mailotron]

[quote=mossy]Hey tee..have a great vacation in Yellowstone! Those furry things you bump into trying to find the outside bog at night are bears.

Dear Mossy,
I hope you enjoy your hollydays and as Frank Zappa said one day be carefull and .... don't eat that Yellow stone !








Have a nice day

Mailo

[kirk]

oh, hey..(from KW's "Guilty Pleasures" thread)-
I have no desire to see Metallica posted at AM,
but I do like their compositional sense.

The later stuff's a bit weak, but the Black Album,
Load/Reload were fun at times.
Like DT, after about the 5th song, i'm ready for something else.

K

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

You do that on occasion, don't you?

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

Please let me know what you think...

What I think? I think metallica on the Moon is about as bad an idea as putting me in charge of the diplomatic mission to Vatican City. Besides the fact that I love my steak too much to give it up on Fridays, I gave up giving stuff up for lent for lent many years ago and I'm sure that wouldn't fly, all things considered. In other words, I can think of a few worse things, but Damn(TM).