Sciences on Moon

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

ROTFLMFAO! Medicine a science!

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If you don't know, don't belittle. It is indeed a science.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

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If you don't know, don't belittle. It is indeed a science.

Medicine is no science... no more a science than alchemy. All that medical research to date has proven is how little they actually know and how much farther they need to go.

I'll consider it a science the day medicine treats the cause of disease and not its symptoms.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

Medicine is no science... no more a science than alchemy. All that medical research to date has proven is how little they actually know and how much farther they need to go.

I'll consider it a science the day medicine treats the cause of disease and not its symptoms.

Alchemy relates to a spiritual element. Medicine relates to the science of many things..disease treatment, causes, healing.

This is not religion vs science. Medicine is no religion. It is science.

Your opinion of the effectiveness of Medicine is no reflection on it's rightful inclusion as Science.

The main reason we know so little is that we keep introducing new issues to the the species. While it is very difficult to keep up, it is undeniable that incredible strides have been made.

If I had my heart surgery or my skin cancer treated 15 years ago, I'd be awful shape because of the improvements in the SCIENCE.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Alchemy relates to a spiritual element. Medicine relates to the science of many things..disease treatment, causes, healing.

This is not religion vs science. Medicine is no religion. It is science.

Your opinion of the effectiveness of Medicine is no reflection on it's rightful inclusion as Science.

The main reason we know so little is that we keep introducing new issues to the the species. While it is very difficult to keep up, it is undeniable that incredible strides have been made.

If I had my heart surgery or my skin cancer treated 15 years ago, I'd be awful shape because of the improvements in the SCIENCE.

...and a lifetime with renal failure/nephritis, diabetes, gout, hypertension, and mouthfulls of tablets and injections of potions hasn't cured anything... only treated the symptoms. My son had open heart surgery. It fixed the symptoms of the problem but not its causes. My wife suffers from seisures. They're poison her with potions pretending to have a f*ing clue what they are doing but they don't know. They take tracings of electrical fields produced from the brain. BFD... they can't read her thoughts from them nor deduce what these signals ACTUALLY represent.

Watson and Crick decoded the chemisty of DNA but do we really know what the pairings of guanine, adenine, thymine and cytosine mean? No. They're busy splicing genes together in the laboratory now hoping to discover what will be produced like a kid randomly mixing the chemicals from a chemisty set without a clue as to the chemical process. When there's a theory that can predict the outcome, then it will be science. The day the can tell us that the sequence of say, cytosine+adenine+thymine will produce a cat ( ), then we have science.

What irks me about medicine is that the don't know anything and for that privilege, they command big money. It's a freakin' gamble just as with the other "practiced" profession. The problem with this gambling is that it is just like Las Vegas... an empire built on the backs of losers -- or in this case, the unfortunates with medical issues.

Suffice to say, medicine is medicine... but not science.

Medicine and Science............

This is definitely one of those tweeners.

I agree that medicine treats symptoms NOT causes but the research that goes on to develop those treatments must surely be classed as science.

A dictionary definition I found for "SCIENCE" states:

science

noun

1 (Knowledge obtained from) the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, especially by observing, measuring and experimenting, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities

I think that this covers medical research as well.....so you can take it either way.

I understand what Martha is going through because I suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and I'm being treated by popping lots of pills that were developed in a laboratory and while the prescribing of said pills isn't scientific the development of them surely is.

Just my 2p worth.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by KeithieW

Medicine and Science............

This is definitely one of those tweeners.

I agree that medicine treats symptoms NOT causes but the research that goes on to develop those treatments must surely be classed as science.

A dictionary definition I found for "SCIENCE" states:

science

noun

1 (Knowledge obtained from) the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, especially by observing, measuring and experimenting, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities

I think that this covers medical research as well.....so you can take it either way.

I understand what Martha is going through because I suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and I'm being treated by popping lots of pills that were developed in a laboratory and while the prescribing of said pills isn't scientific the development of them surely is.

Just my 2p worth.

It's not a tweener. It's a science. Again, the effectiveness or cost paid is not a determinant. That's all I'm saying.

Medicine cannot fix a cause of something. Opinions cannot change the fact it's a science. The definition of Medicine states it's a science.

Rant on as you will gentlemen, I'm out. thanks.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

I'm out. thanks.

What's the betting you'll be back.

[jtmckinley]

Medicine is definitely a science. It's certainly not fully mature in the sense that it can cure all ills, but medical research is very much science. M.D.s on the other hand are sometimes quacks. Most M.D.s are responsible and are trying their best to heal their patients given the tools they have to work with. Some doctors are more skilled/smarter/harder working than others and so one doctor's best will be better than another doctor's best. Also doctors are just humans so they have good days and bad days like the rest of us.

I guess for medicine to be a fully mature science it would need to be able to cure all disease as well as cure death. This may happen some day. For example it may be possible to some day design little nanobots that will float around in our bodies and fix things at the molecular level ensuring our health and immortality (barring catastrophic accidents like a fatal car crash or falling off a cliff). Obviously we're not there yet.

However, I don't really think it's fair to criticize the medical profession because they haven't gotten everything figured out yet. Most of the folks in the medical profession are working very hard to try and develop new treatments and heal their patients. Sometimes the side effects of the cure are worse than the disease and sometimes M.D.s have no choice but to try experimental treatments simply because there is no known treatment for a particular ailment. In that case it's up to the patient to decide if they want to be treated or not. To my knowledge nobody today is forced to undergo medical treatment of any kind (except maybe children since their parents have legal rights over them). One always has the option of refusing treatment and living with the symptoms of the disease, or if the disease is fatal, dying (assuming some self-righteous jackass of a politician doesn't pass some law preventing one's choice).

On the other hand, I certainly think it's worthwhile for people to get a 2nd or even 3rd and 4th opinion before they agree to a particular treatment. As I said above, some doctors are better than others and do a better job of keeping up to date on the latest treatments and sadly a few others are just quacks. Unfortunately it's sometimes difficult for us laymen to know which doctor is better, but I think the more information you have the better. As for the cost of medical treatment, that's a completely separate issue from medicine as science IMHO and gets into the question of whether there should be nationalized (or even globalized) health care and whether that would result in better care overall.